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It looks like I have to be in Seattle for a friends' shindig in early November, and unlike everyone else, I'll be going by train. I figure I should stop in some places on the way out, but time is a factor and hotel costs are a factor too, so I cannot stop for too many nights. I have several options and wanted all your input re which you think would be best--esp best at the beginning of November, weatherwise. My plan is to do any stopping on the way out, when the weather might be better, and then come straight home from Seattle. . .
1. Stop in St Paul, MN. Visiting St Paul/ Minneapolis is something I have planned before and had to cncel, and I really want to get this capitol under my belt. I would go coach from Chicago to St Paul and, if I go only to St Paul, can do the capitol only if I stay just 1 night (I'd see the capitol next day and continue on the train that night).
2. Go from St Paul to Minneapolis and catch a bus to Pierre, for another capitol. This is 3 more nights, because I have the first night in St Paul, the night after I see St Paul, and the bus (which leaves only in early morning) to Pierre, the day I see Pierre (4th night), and then bus all the way back, catching the train further west 2 hours after I get in. I think Pierre is probably not so wonderful that I need to wait for great weather to see it, so I'm game for doing this EXCEPT it is a 10 hour bus ride each way. I'm not sure I can stand 10 hours on a bus! Though thankfully, it's not Greyhound.
3. Spend at least a day in Minneapolis too. I have for a long time also wanted to see Minneapolis, but I'm thinking all of this may not be so great in November and I should go back another time. Or maybe I shouldn't do any of this this time of year?
4. Forget St Paul and stop in Fargo, then take a bus to Bismarck and see that capitol. This is a much shorter bus ride. Problem is Fargo stop is middle of night, always tiring. Also, all this may be dreadful weatherwise this time of year; don't know.
5. Forget all the above and go to Helena Montana. This is a time consuming trip as I have to go to Whitefish (or Spokane) and take buses; and there would be overnight there and in another city besides Helena (Missoula I think? I have to check) too. But is Helena going to be nice in November, or should I wait for better weather? And how mountainous is the area? I don't want to get caught in a lot of snow on a bus. I really wish I weren't traveing in November!
6. Stop in AStoria OR. Another place I've always wanted to go. I could take the EB to Portland, spend a few hours, catch bus to Astoria, spend 2 nights, and then catch bus back to Portland, catching Cascades train up to Seattle.
7. Go out with the Zephyr and stop in Denver, then take a bus or airport shuttle to Cheyenne. This would be a lot more expensive. Also, I did 4 legs on the Zephyr this May and I'm not sure I want to risk the delays again (I was so lucky not to have them this time).
8. Go out with the Zephyr, go to Emeryville and visit a friend. This would be very cheap accommodations hahaha, and I'd love to see her, but with a friend, I might not get to see much of anything touristwise. And I've been in San Francisco (and seen her) bfeore.
9. Just spend all my extra time in the Seattle area. Plus, I could go to Tacoma by public bus and see the glass museum, etc etc. But my guess is it will be raining a lot!
Please let me know what you think!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Some of this depends on whether you are talking early or late November. I agree that Astoria is a neat place to see - but in late November it could be fogged in & cold & rainy. (And it's not a state capitol). I have not been to either Bismark or Pierre (except to drive by on the interstate) so I can't comment on those. Weather could be a factor for those 10-hour bus rides, too. I've heard Missoula is a really nice town (unlike Butte, which is literally a pit). Bottom line: if I was taking this trip, I'd spend most of my time in Seattle and/or Portland (with a side trip to Astoria). If you do happen to hit a spell of sunny weather, consider a day trip to Mt. Rainier or Mt. St Helens (check Grayline tours from Seattle and/or Portland). I'm not sure how late in the year they run.
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
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I'm thinking a lot like Ms. McFarland. I understand that you have a desire to capitol tour, which plays into your decisions, so stopping in St. Paul seems reasonable. Beyond that I'd agree that spending most of your time in Seattle with a side trip to Astoria would be the best bet. Personally, I'd never venture near either of the Dakotas close to winter, and a friend who once lived in Helena MT. commented that he's nver seen so much snow or been so cold in his life! Early November doesn't guarantee snow, but...
Plus, I really like Seattle! And you could train up to Vancouver if time allows and it's too rainy to visit other places suggested.
Also, I'm a native Californian, so snow is just something to visit for playtime, as opposed to something you deal with, and being from upsate NY, your views may differ Posts: 406 | From: La Grange, CA | Registered: Sep 2007
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I have been to Helena once... it is really a nice city. Among other things, I suggest a visit to the state capitol building. The weather in November is very unpredictable. It could be nice or very cold and snowy. If the weather is good, a drive over toward Flathead Lake will get you into some really scenic country, but probably better in springtime. I once drove around the lake in the month of May, with snow still on the mountains but with cherry trees in bloom. Quite a sight.
The Pike Place Market, in Seattle, is always fun..but maybe you have already seen it.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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There is rail commute btw Seattle and Tacoma. I suggest Seattle, then Portland and if you haven't done it, Salem, OR. Astoria can be ??? weather so make that decision when in Portland.
Portland and Seattle are great cities with many diverse attractions.
Posts: 467 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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If I were going to be in the Seattle area with extra time to burn, I would consider -
A) Taking the morning Cascades train to Vancouver and then
B) Taking the Pacific Coach bus to Victoria (VIA BC Ferries) on Vancouver Island.
The bus departs Vancouver from the same station your train arrives and you would be in Victoria by late afternoon. There are several hotels ranging from an adequate Best Western to the Opulant Empress all within four or five blocks walking from the Victoria bus depot. You'll also find the Provincial Parlament Building, a nice museum, and the Victoria Harbor all within the same neighborhood. It would be great for a night or two before retracing your steps to Seattle.
Please accept my apologies for, as usual, broadening your options rather than helping you narrow them down!!!!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Judy: It's early November. In fact, if I start stopping in Minnesota, that would begin at the very end of October. But Astoria would be early November. Do you think it is likely to be very nasty with fog then? I know Seattle is often nasty, even in spring! (I'm sure those tour buses won't be running.)
RR4me/David P: I have been to Vancouver twice (and Victoria once). Much as I love them both (and I have friends in Vancouver whom I like to see), I don't have the money to spend on hotels in Vancouver right now. Do you have any input involving the options I'm considering? Much appreciated. . . .
Yukon: If I go to St Paul I definitely hope to see the Hill home! I have ben to Pike Market--but I'm likely to go again this time in Seattle too--it's fun, with some good places to eat. (Though Montreal has the best market of all, IMO.)
If I go to Helena, I will definitely see the capitol. But the question is, is early November a good time to go? Or will I be wasting my money because the chance of bad weather is so high? To get there, I'd also have to stay in Whitefish and probably Missoula one night to get there, so it's a bit pricy hotelwise. . .
RR China: Have been to Salem OR (my least favorite capital). Also, once while in Seattle, I took the bus from Seattle to Tacoma when I went to Olympia (to see that capitol). It was short, cheap, and easy, and it stopped right by those museums. The train schedule is less convenient and I think would mean a taxi fare in Tacoma (the bus stop was right by those museums). BTW, near those museums is the old train station, which I definitely hope to see. . . .
I'm still looking for more input on the westher situation. I was hoping Twin Cities or Montana Jim might have some input on weather? Also, what about Cheyenne, any input on weather etc there and my doing that???
But for right now, my likely trip is to take Judy/RR4me's advice: stop only in St Paul and AStoria, and spend a little more time in Seattle.
Thanks, all, and keep 'em coming.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sojourner, click into wunderground.com. There you put in the city you want and you will get all kinds of info includng at the lower left history and almanac. It is a geat site. Just put in Helena,Mt or wherever.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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oops I left out an important fact. This is for weather.at whatever city you put in
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Well, St. Paul and Minneapolis are both nice cities, and in early November the weather may be chilly but you probably won't have snow. So I'd do the stop in St. Paul for a day, then go on to Seattle. The Pacific Northwest is my favorite part of the U.S.
Bismarck is a nice little town, but getting there will be tough (bus ride). Same for Missoula. I've never been to Pierre. All in all, I'd pass on the Dakotas and Montana in November. Go back in midsummer.
Posts: 614 | From: Merchantville, NJ. USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Ms. Sojourner, if you accept Mr. Resor's St Paul recommendation, here is a suggested hotel.
Although this property has been around for "a while" and gone through "the gamut" of major brands, it offers good views of not only River traffic, but also The Builder passing through, but of course not stopping. If it did, you could walk from this hotel to the SPUD.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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From the options you initially proposed, I'd be inclined to spend the time in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. I've spent a few nights here in recent years between trains/planes, etc. but other than a nice evening in downtown Minneapolis last July, I have not spent much time there.
This is going to change next month though.... my wife, daughter, and I are flying to MSP to visit an old friend of my wife as well as explore the cities a bit. We'll be there for four days.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Weather in St. Paul in in early November is extremely unpredictable. Around 1991 we had the infamous "Halloween Blizzard" with about 2.5 feet of wet snow that froze and paralyzed transportation for days. Walking anywhere outdoors was suicidal due to snow covered ice. People arriving on the Builder had to stay in the station because buses and cabs could not move. Other years we had trick-or-treaters in shorts.
I second the recommendation of Mr. Norman's hotel. It is a beautiful view, glass elevator to the top-floor restaurant with a rotating carousel. Across the street is a real cliff down to the Mississippi and Amtrak. The hotel is connected by skyway to all of downtown, including the Union Depot (which will be an Amtrak stop someday). It is about a 4 block walk outdoors from the skyway system to the capitol. There are also frequent busses with a reduced downtown only fare that includes the capitol. They are currently building light rail and the streets are a mess. When completed in about 3 years, it will connect the current Amtrak station, the capitol, the above hotel, and the magnificent Union Depot.
I do not recommend the St. Paul bus depot. It is only a slight step up from a city bus stop, but it IS within a block of the capital. It is not downtown. Minneapolis is better. If your carrier is Jefferson Lines they are nicer than Greyhound.
Are there buses from Pierre to Helena so you wouldn't have to backtrack? A few years ago a friend of mine took connecting buses MSP-Rapid City-Billings-Spokane using a combination of carriers that included Powder River Lines.
Missoula is a beautiful city, so if it is a bus transfer point, you might like to look around. Pierre is, well, it's got a river and a park and if you want to escape from big city life this is not the big city. Ditto for Bismark, and it is also a very friendly town. I would guess most transportation in both is centered around cars and not walking, but I could be wrong.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Thanks, all, for all your tips. I think I'll do St Paul/Minneapolis (but not more than 2 nights) & Portland/Astoria, and hope for the best weatherwise. Will have to return to Minneapolis to get to Pierre some day, so I'd see more of it then; and actually, I'd like to go to Rapid City too; when I do, bus transport sounds like a possibility, but at any rate (although the bus from Pierre take very long to get to Rapid City because it's very roundabout); at any rate, it would be in warmer time of year! Definitely will see Missoula when I see Helena then; I think the bus makes you stop in the dreaded Butte, but I hope it's not too bad at the bus terminal.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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While I must note I have had no reason to be anywhere near Butte since I was with the MILW (left 1981), it was "die totenstadt' back then and I shudder to think what it is now.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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For those who need a GBNese to English translation, die totenstadt = deadsville = slocala (my present "home" town).
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Missoula, another city I often had occasion to visit during my years with the MILW, I found to be attractive - so long as the wind wasn't blowing the "wrong way'.
Suffice to say there is a "malodorous" industry in town that you will also find in the likes of, say, Wausau WI (another place that were it not for the MILW, I likely would have ever set foot in this life).
However, there (apparently) was a hotel to the West of town (searched for it while preparing this posting with negative results). It was part of the Best Western "chain' (if you care to call that brand such) and their slogan was "The only thing we overlook is the scenic Clark Fork River" (if I got my history straight, at Three Forks, Lewis went East to explore the now-Yellowstone and Clark went West to explore his namesake).
Hard to believe, but I wasn't "on the carpet' when I turned in my Expense Report for that journey.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I would say visit your friend. After all you don't get to see her that often. Then after that spending time in St. Paul
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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