posted
Funny how there are few complaints about the service the bus companies offer.
But, even if I have no personal need for such, it seems as if "being connected" is now "expected" to the same extent as is adequate heating and cooling in a public facility.
I'm certain both Amtrak and the European Railways are on their vendor's hind-quarters to address these issues that The Times points out.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
The article doesn't mention the problems that Europe is having---I did not know this was the case.
I don't understand Amtrak's excuse/reason for why their WiFi is having problems. They try to say that there is no competition for bandwidth in the sky (for airlines such as Jet Blue and Virgin America), but there are problems with that statement. First of all, I have witnessed (many times) an airplane full of people who go online. An airplane holds more passengers than a bus, so that shoots down that angle of their argument. And then to say that Amtrak relies on land-based cell towers----well, yeah, so what??!! I am "connected" everywhere I go on the ground with my iPhone and iPad. I have no connectivity problems like Amtrak is describing--what are they talking about? The only thing I can think of that might be different is that trains go through tunnels, and I can see cell service disappearing there. But other than that, especially along the NEC which is highly populated, Amtrak's reasoning does not hold water. They have clearly blown it, and need to figure out what they did wrong.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I used to be involved with a company that supplies the hardware to buses and trains to provide "wi-fi" on the vehicle. It's a simple device: 2 air cards from 2 different providers, say Verizon and Sprint, and a switch. The switch detects which card is getting the stronger signal and connects that signal to the router. On a bus with 50 passengers, 35 of whom are trying to connect to the internet and with the router 15 feet away there is less of a problem with signal strength and congestion. A train might have well over 100 people trying to connect and the router might be several cars away.
Why not put a router and the air card box in each car; wouldn't that solve the problem? Yup. But consider this: if you get an air card to plug into your computer, it will cost you $60/month from Verizon. As I previously mentioned, there are 2 air cards in each box; well, you can do the math. It gets expensive.
I've got a Verizon air card that I've used successfully throughout the AMTRAK system with the exception of SE Colorado and western North Dakota/eastern Montana. So the problem is not with the carrier. It's right there on the train.
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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In your immediate post, you use an example of a motor bus and you note that 35 of the 50 passengers are attempting to connect to the internet. Is this "just a number out of the air" or is this based upon reported experience by your client?
That's 70%.
From one who does not have any mobile devices beyond a very basic clamshell phone (it does have Bluetooth for hands-free use in my auto) and often has Zero minutes of airtime use in a billing cycle, I continue to be amazed and astounded just how dependent many people are on these electronic playthings.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I just pulled those numbers out of the air (not the 50...that's a typical capacity for a bus). My point is that the train has many more people trying to access the internet than a typical bus, and the train riders are farther away from the router. There are 2 issues present: congestion and distance from the signal.
But, I'm with you. My only mobile device is the clamshell and rarely with me and rarely on.
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Thanks for the explanation, TBlack. I suppose I didn't realize that separate electronics (and dual air cards) were required for each car on the train in order for it to work correctly. That makes perfect sense, however. I wonder why Amtrak doesn't just say that? Their explanation leaves me scratching my head.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Smitty, Notice that the article that Henry has linked quotes Matt Hardison, chief of sales distribution and consumer services. Maybe he's not technical either and doesn't know how the system works. Therefore, he can't give a straightforward answer. TB
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Regarding the wifi-urps in Yurp, the article says "(. . . intercity rail passengers in Europe have also frequently complained about wireless service there, which suggests the technical issues of providing a reliable wireless network on a train is not unique to Amtrak.)"
In my last trip on the Zephyr, I used an iPad 2 equipped with Verizon 3G and was able to connect to the Internet regularly. When the train was near the interstates in the desert or on the Plains, the connection was good. I did not try it in the eastern Colorado Rockies, figuring the canyons would block cellular signals, and was busy photographing things anyway.
Why, I could even Facebook with my family and friends on the train. ("To facebook" is a verb, isn't it?)
However, these devices are not "playthings" for many who use them, but are highly useful professional tools. For me in particular they are even more than this—they are a vital lifeline after a lifetime of isolation. Just imagine yourself as a deaf person who has never been able to use a telephone.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I also have only the "clamshell",and that was to replace my mint condition "brick" that became obsolete. We must all be old. Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Our iPad was incredibly useful on our just completed cruise/four days in Amsterdam.
We were able to stay in touch with just about anyone anywhere in the world (We had two free 90 minute internet packages and used only part of one of them.), checked local news, took and stored photos, kept a daily journal and downloaded the June F/A bid packet and bid for the month. Hardly a plaything. I also had a couple of books that I'd bought on iTunes but never had time to read them. There were plenty of people on board reading on iPads and other e-readers, though.
The newest Celebrity ships use iPads as menus and wine lists in a couple of the specialty restaurants and I suspect that connectivity to the ship's system will come soon so you'll be able to order room service, book shore excursions, check entertainment schedules,etc. when away from your stateroom.
In Amsterdam we used the iPad for all of the above and also used it to search restaurants and make reservations and get directions to restaurants and attractions.
Smitty--
We didn't try the wi-fi on Virgin America. We were too busy playing with the great entertainment system and ordering food and drink (all complimentary since we'd followed your advice and upgraded to Main Cabin Select!).
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Why doesn't everyone just enjoy the peacefulness of the rides without the need to be in constant communication with the outside world. I have to say I very much value the isolation on rail trips enjoying the "quiet" coach where I can.
Posts: 211 | From: Norfolk England | Registered: Sep 2007
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We didn't try the wi-fi on Virgin America. We were too busy playing with the great entertainment system and ordering food and drink (all complimentary since we'd followed your advice and upgraded to Main Cabin Select!).
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Yay!!! So happy to hear that it worked out and that you enjoyed it. I really love that airline!
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: Regarding the wifi-urps in Yurp, the article says "(. . . intercity rail passengers in Europe have also frequently complained about wireless service there, which suggests the technical issues of providing a reliable wireless network on a train is not unique to Amtrak.)
Oops! I don't know how I missed that. After reading it (and not seeing it), I went back and did a "find" for the word "Europe" and it said "Not found". I guess it's operator error again. Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I have used it on the San Joaquin trains with no glitches. Know several people that take it as a given when riding the Bay to Sacramento trains, but then those trains are essentially business people's trains that have a large number of near commuter style passengers. For quite a few people on them the reason to use the train is the chance to do work instead of watching traffic.
For the rest of the system, have no idea. I would suspect that there would be quite a bit of no signal areas in the west.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
When I took the Starlight in February, the WiFi signal from the Parlour Car was strong during the entire trip. However, that's as far as it went---there was no internet connection the whole time. The one frustrating thing is that nobody on the train knows anything about it. I asked two employees (including the PPC attendant) if he knew how to get it working, and he said it's in a locked box and he has no access to it and knows nothing about it. Okay, I understand the need to lock it up----but can't they give their employees a quickie lesson on how to turn it off then turn it back on? That is a "magic fix" for many computer issues.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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WASHINGTON — After years of criticism of the wireless service on its trains, Amtrak announced on Thursday that it had upgraded its cellular-based Wi-Fi using broadband technologies that will improve the speed and reliability of the Internet in its passenger cars.
Amtrak’s Wi-Fi has been the target of technology jokes since the railroad introduced the service, with some passengers comparing it to dial-up services like America Online or Prodigy. But others have praised the service, saying it allows them to be productive while traveling between cities, unlike airline travel. Because of the technical difficulties of maintaining a strong Internet connection on a moving train, the increase in speed would still be less than most people experience at home.
Of interest is the photo of the Cafe' car and the use of its tables. I don't see much in the way of Food or Beverage being consumed. What Amtrak might consider is restricting the "short" end (after finding somewhere else for the supplies and kicking the Conductor out) to F&B sales only, i.e. if you are surfin', you'd better be eatin', and the other end, selling those as revenue space with a minimum of "three rails".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Of interest is the photo of the Cafe' car and the use of its tables. I don't see much in the way of Food or Beverage being consumed.
This is a growing problem. In addition to the traditional pack of crew members (who should restrict their lounging to one table, max), cafe cars are increasingly commandeered -- often for hours -- by solo, laptop-wielding passengers who don't buy anything at all.
When non-eating/drinking passengers (or bored crew members) insist on hogging tables, I'm not shy about politely saying "excuse me," and then plopping myself down in their booth to eat my food.
Unless they're European and accustomed to sharing tables, they're rarely thrilled. But since they haven't bought anything (and a booth is built for four passengers, not one), they have no grounds to complain.
Typically, they'll glare daggers across the table at me, fiddle with their laptop for a moment or two more, and then ultimately pack up their stuff and leave.
And I get to do what the limited table space was designed for:
posted
I would hope the new dorm-baggage Viewliner cars would fix that problem on esstern LD trains with the crews required to use that space for lounging or actual paperwork. But, haven't seen the diagram for the interior of those cars yet.
As far as passengers, perhaps just a sign on the tables saying passengers will be required to share that table with others (and return to your seat if you don't want to share) would take cars of those that 'glare daggers'. The few times I've had to sit at a table with someone already using it has resulted in pleasant conversations (including an R&B star from the 60's).
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TBlack: I used to be involved with a company that supplies the hardware to buses and trains to provide "wi-fi" on the vehicle. It's a simple device: 2 air cards from 2 different providers, say Verizon and Sprint, and a switch. The switch detects which card is getting the stronger signal and connects that signal to the router. On a bus with 50 passengers, 35 of whom are trying to connect to the internet and with the router 15 feet away there is less of a problem with signal strength and congestion. A train might have well over 100 people trying to connect and the router might be several cars away.
Why not put a router and the air card box in each car; wouldn't that solve the problem? Yup. But consider this: if you get an air card to plug into your computer, it will cost you $60/month from Verizon. As I previously mentioned, there are 2 air cards in each box; well, you can do the math. It gets expensive.
I've got a Verizon air card that I've used successfully throughout the AMTRAK system with the exception of SE Colorado and western North Dakota/eastern Montana. So the problem is not with the carrier. It's right there on the train.
[I'm aware the quoted post is virtually a year old]
Firstly, if Amtrak are [still] only using one wireless AP per train then they haven't learned from the rest of the world. Train cars are nice metal boxes where Wifi signals prefer to stay within. Instead, the common theme seems to be to install a wireless router in each car and then use a single train-to-ground connection (not one per car; that would just be silly, as would paying $60/mo per connection).
Secondly, and I'm trying to confirm this, most operators do not use the land-based cell towers but satellites or other communication media - same as airlines, since they cannot use cell towers.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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