Mine; it's been hijacked. Authorities know where it is and are trying to negotiate a release.
But the wildest of the wild was one posted elsewhere; there is some kind of device as in James Bond 'Moonraker' that has swallowed up the aircraft and is taking it and the passengers to some other world.
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I am inclined to also go with the hijacking. Also really inclined to believe the spoken and subsequently silenced thought that the plane turned around and went back across the Malay penninsula toward Sumatra. Would also not be surprised to find that it landed somewhere in Sumatra, or tried to. They may have attempted a landing on a runway that was too short. Has Indonesia been playing any part in the search? Recall the tsunami a few years back that devastated part of the southwest side of Sumatra? Indonesia did not want any outsiders going in to help. There was a lot said in the press about Phuket, Thailand, but not much about what the tsunami did to Sumatra which was much worse.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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One transponder stopped transmitting 14 minutes before the second one stopped... other aircraft systems pinging a satellite up to 4 hours later, roughly coinciding with the amount of fuel time remaining... lots of ocean with no primary radar... lost communication halfway between two landmasses (and thus radar)... certainly easy to believe a hijacking theory. Only thing that doesn't really fit with that is that apparently none of the passengers were able to make a call on their entertainment systems - could've been disabled I guess.
Now another plane has hit the dirt. TV images of people carrying their personal effects down the chutes. Passengers are probably the second greatest danger to other passengers when flying.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I made a stupid mistake when connecting through Denver from Madison, WI to Los Angeles last year in winter. Madison, nice airport, board plane through jetbridge. Assumed same at Denver as it's a huge airport I've been to before. Left overcoat in carry-on bags, and being a small plane it got checked at the gate. Arrive at Denver at a non-airbridge gate. D'oh! Swirling snow, freezing temperatures, and I was in jeans and T-shirt. Luckily not far to retrieve the baggage but the point being, if we had "arrived" at a non-airport then I could have been somewhat unfortunate. I at least had decent shoes on - something which many do not.
Back to the subject, the piecemeal "evidence" and reports debunked hours later is somewhat disturbing. Now, the duty of anybody discovering anything is to report to the investigating authorities (Malaysia until proved otherwise), not to CNN/AP/NYT, so are we hearing stuff days later than it was discovered because the persons reporting got frustrated with the authorities and decided to go through more public means?
Another thing that gets me is the "stolen to order" theory. Yes, that exists in other forms, but a B777 is not that easy to hide in plain sight, whether by North Korea, Crimea, Syria, or anywhere else. It's not as if eBay carries tires or other spare parts for Boeing 777s!
So many questions, so few answers. It must be awful for the relatives of those on board.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: a B777 is not that easy to hide in plain sight, whether by North Korea, Crimea, Syria, or anywhere else. It's not as if eBay carries tires or other spare parts for Boeing 777s!
So many questions, so few answers. It must be awful for the relatives of those on board.
Exactly my thought. Thanks to the overall level of satellite coverage of this planet, for the US military agencies to not have found the plane by now from satellite views strikes me as incompetence. So, I would be inclined to believe that for some reason nobody's talking. Maybe there is an unwillingness to admit it was found or, with it found, to admit to where it is. Likewise for the Russians, assuming that they have not given up on all their Cold War surveillance.
The news this morning that a signal was received from the plane up to 7 hours after takeoff without saying from where add to the confusion. The plot on the map shows it over the Indian Ocean ends a point, at what I have seen this morning, that could have been reached is something under 3 hours.
Who all is hiding what all? Or am I being paranoid. Then there is the quote from a movie, I think it was [u]The Hunt for Red October[/u], that says essentially, "I know I am being paranoid, but am I being paranoid enough?"
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:It has also emerged that the flight was close to running out of fuel at the time a satellite picked up its last confirmed signal at 8.11am on March 8 – seven hours and 31 minutes after take-off.
“It must have been almost flying on fumes,” a source in Kuala Lumpur with knowledge of the investigation said.
is true, then it would seem that the search area would be significantly reduced rather than being over a big chunk of the planet as appears to be the case for now.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Had the lead investigative agency been from the US, we would have found the location where the aircraft touched down, hull intact or otherwise, by now.
That this Third World 'Abbott and Costello' gang has jurisdiction, and apparently is not about to cede such to 'the pros', could well mean this will be a 'we'll never know'.
Now should B-777 mean 'Bomber' in the sense of B-29, 'we will know' when a prominent target gets 'taken out'. There is always the possibility it ended up in an essentially closed society with little in the way of electronic infrastructure - Burma.
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Had the lead investigative agency been from the US, we would have found the location where the aircraft touched down, hull intact or otherwise, by now.
Given that, as far as we know, the last contact was with a satellite with a coverage the size of Europe, your optimism is somewhat excessive.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: That this Third World 'Abbott and Costello' gang has jurisdiction, and apparently is not about to cede such to 'the pros', could well mean this will be a 'we'll never know'.
A couple of facts to include in your opinion piece: 1. Malaysia is a first world country. 2. Until proven otherwise, as it was a Malaysian aircraft and/or last seen in Malaysian airspace, it is they who have jurisdiction. See the Convention on International Civil Aviation, also called the Chicago Convention.
The NTSB and Boeing are, of course, assisting anyway, as agreed.
Should note that I'm not defending the Malaysians here; just trying to put things into a little more perspective.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Of course it is opinion, Mr. Mayo; what do I know 'from the inside' about the air transport industry. All I know about aviation is what I glean from playing with my Flight Sim (and that mostly is navigation), from several Flight Attendant friends, and what I observe from 23A (I like it Aft; better flightseeing) - and that is only about four times a year nowadays.
But even limiting one's self to recognized news outlets (Times, Journal, and NBC News - no Fox or MSNBC even if deemed 'recognized'), there is no question whatever that the aircraft had no kind of mechanical failure and the diversionary actions were deliberate. True, on 9/11, the bad boys had knowledge of controlling aircraft that were already in flight but had no intention of landing anywhere. If anyone in the flight crew wanted to 'off' themselves, what would it matter if anyone found the wreckage? I can't say with any kind of certainty, but I hold this aircraft is intact somewhere within its range; all we can hope is that the passenger hostages will be released and that some kind of 'Special Operations' will destroy the aircraft lest it be used for another 9/11.
Finally, regarding investigative jurisdiction, Malaysia sits at the top of the heap, i.e. their flagged aircraft, their flight crew, their airspace. But I do think that there should have been recognition as soon as crash debris were not found where they should have been, that 'this is out of our pay grade' and promptly ceded lead role to 'the pros' from the US NTSB. Should criminal prosecution move forth against any party in this matter, that should promptly revert to Malaysian authorities. Reportedly (Wiki), Malaysian jurisprudence remains patterned after English law.
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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While this lasest discovery of debris in the Indian Ocean and in the ballpark of where MH370 could have ran out of fuel and crashed puts my theory that the aircraft was hijacked and flew 'under the radar' and landed somewhere, to rest, the families will have their closure.
I can't think of anything worse than having a loved one 'MIA'.
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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At least, I don't care as much as people who have been glued to their flat-screen TVs (or hand-held electronics) for the latest, because the 'latest' has too often been groundless speculation (a stowaway did it) and sometimes insanity (alien abduction).
I do care about the lives of the hundreds of innocent passengers and crew. The spiderweb of tragedy radiates out to their families, friends and associates. But my caring doesn't change facts on the ground (or in the air)......I check in once or twice a day, but otherwise devote my attention to how Russia made Crimea disappear from Ukraine, a story where the facts are known and could be a trip wire that sets off World War III.
Maybe viewers don't want that much reality
Regarding the final thought, there are simply too many parallels between 'Schicklgruber' and 'Vladimir The Great'. 'Oh let him have Austria; they're practically German anyway'.
Finally, here are 'scary thoughts' from New York Times columnist Roger Cohen regarding my final comment.
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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A couple of thoughts: appears there is nobody except Mr. Norman, Geoff Mayo and me contributing to this subject.
Malaysian Law System: I really don't know much about it other than that it is patterned on English Common Law. That is true of a lot of former British Colonies. The substance may be a little weak, however.
Ukraine/Crimea: I think getting involved in any form or fashion in that one is a MAJOR MISTAKE in US foreign policy. I do not see the parallel with Germany - Austria in the pre WW2 era. It is worth remembering that pre 1900 that Germany was not truly one country, either, but several such as Prussia, Bavaria, etc. so to take over Austria was not really much more than an additional, but somewhat long step in the unification of the German speaking people into one nation similar to what had happened in Italy.
Remember, the Crimea was part of Russia during Tsarist times and only became part of the Ukraine under the Lenin-Stalin borg. It is also highly quenstionable for the US to take a "big brother knows best" stance over what is going on over 1/4 the way around the planet. If we are so concerned about the condition of people in other parts of the world there are quite a few places that are much worse off.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Now that the aircraft has been deemed lost by the sovereignty to which it was flagged, it appears that the lead for its recovery has ceded to the US.
The aircraft has now been struck from the registry and, being in International waters, it is deemed abandoned and so its 'first come first served.
While of course regarding matters of indemnity, the insurers have primary interest, but so far as air safety is concerned, that primary interest is with the US and the Boeing Company.
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I too believe the plane was hijacked, most likely by those 2 Iranian Muslims who stole the passports to get on the plane. I believe the hijackers disabled the crew and all electronic transponders, then parachuted to safety somewhere.
I also believe that Malaysia knows more about what happened than they are telling anybody, especially the Chinese folks who lost their loved ones.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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And, concerning Crimea, am I just stupid or what? Remember there was a free election in Crimea recently, and the citizens voted OVERWHELMINGLY to become part of Russia again.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: And, concerning Crimea, am I just stupid or what? Remember there was a free election in Crimea recently, and the citizens voted OVERWHELMINGLY to become part of Russia again.
That's easily done when joining Russia is the only option on the ballot. But having said that, it is true that Crimea was part of Russia until Khruschev gave it to Ukraine in 1954. It still houses Russia's Black Sea Navy fleet and has a population that's 60% Russian. Consider it gone. The question is what shouls be done if Putin goes after more of Ukraine?
Posts: 511 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: And, concerning Crimea, am I just stupid or what? Remember there was a free election in Crimea recently, and the citizens voted OVERWHELMINGLY to become part of Russia again.
That's easily done when joining Russia is the only option on the ballot. But having said that, it is true that Crimea was part of Russia until Khruschev gave it to Ukraine in 1954. It still houses Russia's Black Sea Navy fleet and has a population that's 60% Russian. Consider it gone. The question is what shouls be done if Putin goes after more of Ukraine?
easy: Stay far, far away. If we want to put our nose in issues in other countries there are many of much greater significance than one which is very close to an in the family squabble. Besides, as you note the Crimea was part of Russia before 1954, and given that all was part of the Soviet Borg with the puppet string pulled from Moscow, the transfer really meant nothing. It is actually more the Ukraine trying to hold onto a piece of territory that was never really theirs other than on paper in the first place. If we ahve the urge to go after other's internal crimes, how about going after Saudi Arabia's persecution of religious minorities and subjugation of women effectively to a state of slavery?
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Well. if 12 years in Afghanistan hasn't changed the Taliban's opinion of women, I doubt we'd change the Saudi's minds either. As for Ukraine, it isn't a member of NATO as the Baltic States are, so we're not going to go but so far. Remember Eisenhower didn't intervene when Khruschev invaded Hungary, LBJ didn't intervene when Brezhnev invaded Czechoslovakia, and GWBush didn't intervene when Putin invaded Georgia. We recognize the Russians' sphere of influence.
Posts: 511 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Jerome Nicholson: Well. if 12 years in Afghanistan hasn't changed the Taliban's opinion of women, I doubt we'd change the Saudi's minds either. As for Ukraine, it isn't a member of NATO as the Baltic States are, so we're not going to go but so far. Remember Eisenhower didn't intervene when Khruschev invaded Hungary, LBJ didn't intervene when Brezhnev invaded Czechoslovakia, and GWBush didn't intervene when Putin invaded Georgia. We recognize the Russians' sphere of influence.
Not expecting us to change the opinions of the Afghans, Saudi, or anybody else. Just using them to say why are we bothering about the Ukraine when there are a lot of other things that are greater significance to US as a country or in human rights issues
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Well, it looks like MH 370 is back on the front page again.
I am confident that the debris found on a French island can be traced to whatever aircraft it came from. While in the Air Force, I learned that every aircraft part beyond a nut or bolt has a serial number and that records are maintained to whatever aircraft that part is applied. I'm certain that doctrine also applies to all aircraft operated under rules of the ICAO.
I guess the debris is property of France in that it washed ashore on Reunion Island, a French "Department" near Madagascar. I guess the French air safety investigative agency is not a slouch; lest we forget they solved the case of AF 447, and even when it was found that "pilot error' was the cause - and that flight crew were French, they still disclosed the results and allowed the indemnity chips to fall where they may.
But I guess more of the aircraft will need be found in International waters in order for the US NTSB to have any standing beyond "guest" in an investigation.
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ocean currents in that swathe of ocean would seem to to favour the possibility that the debris did indeed make its way from Asia/Australasia to Africa.
I doubt the NTSB would become anything more than a guest even if any of the plane were to be found in international waters. The only way in is it being a Boeing and thus US-built aircraft. Believe it or not, the NTSB is not the only agency in the world capable of investigating accidents thoroughly.
I bet they've already read serial numbers and know one way or the other, but just hanging on to give a "formal" report via the proper channels.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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The Wall Street Journal has reported that the US NTSB will participate in the examination of the debris, but in the capacity of "guests".
To reiterate my earlier belief, should debris be found in International waters, and they can be reasonably attributed to the missing B-777, then the US NTSB should be afforded standing.
But finally, allow me to "second" Mr. Mayo 's immediate thought that there are other air safety investigative agencies that can be considered competent. After all, once again, the French agency solved AF 447 - and they presently are "lead".
Posts: 9987 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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The flaperon washed up on the beach on Reunion island has been confirmed as coming from MH370. I doubt anybody's surprised, but as I predicted, the announcement came through official channels (Malaysian PM) - and wasn't leaked for once. More debris has been found too.
Perhaps now they can run some ocean current models and cross reference with the satellite pings to narrow down the search area further. From a layman's POV of doing the same, it seems they were searching in the right area - albeit an area the size of Texas, if not bigger.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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People tend to forget how big the oceans really are. Particularly if you are used to seeing Mercator projection world maps, if you base your assessments of area sizes on how Europe looks on those things you grossly underestimate the size of the tropical zones.
And maybe the black box can ultimately be found and we can begin to have something approaching realism about what happened instead of wild guesswork and conspiracy theorists spouting off. Then on the other hand these characters may really be right??
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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