posted
Just returned from Oregon to Florida via the Sunset Ltd. and Coast Starlight round trip.
Very nice going out, though we about four hours late to Los Angeles and were bused from Ontario to Santa Barbara to catch the CS.
Got to Portland station about 2 hours late, not too bad.
Coming home, I boarded the CS on June 29, only to be told there would be no connection with the Sunset due to the horrific freight collision near San Antonio June 28. So I called my daughter and stayed a few more days in beautiful Oregon -- no problem.
Finally boarded the CS Sat. July 3 and got to LA July 4 about 3 hours late. It didn't matter, since the Sunset wasn't ready to roll eastbound until nearly 2 a.m. Monday instead of the correct 10:15 p.m. Sunday, July 4.
Union Station in LA was absolutely jammed and I had to simply stand for hours until we boarded.
So the Sunset left LA about 3 hours late and it only got worse from there. I'm used to UP delays along the Sunset route, but have never experience so many as on this trip.
We kept running so late, two crew changes were made enroute, meaning an hour or more wait until the relief crews came aboard. They do NOT work beyond the 12 hour limit for any reason.
By the time we approached New Orleans, we were running more than 11 hours late and Amtrak VIPs decided to "terminate" our train in NO. They opted for buses to continue our trip.
With dozens of stopped up bathrooms, food supplies running out and very few off-train breaks, I had finally "had it."
By cell phone, I booked a Southwest flight in NO and arrived in Tampa 1 1/2 hours later -- far better than the estimated (by Amtrak) 18 hours bus ride.
Other than that, a great trip, with the Pacific Parlour Car all the way on the CS and excellent car attendants round trip.
After getting bumped, so to speak, on the June 29 CS, Amtrak upgraded my standard sleeper to a deluxe compartment (no extra charge) on the homeward Sunset -- so that was a plus!
Somehow, Amtrak and the UP simply have to have a meeting of minds. So many passengers swore they would never ride the rails again after this trip. I'm not one of them, but I'm beginning to have doubts, too.
You might have met an Australian couple from Brisbane who got off the Starlight in SBA on the 4th. I met them the next day on the southbound Surfliner. They broke the trip in SBA rather than continue to LA. and were able to get a room at the State Street Hotel across the tracks from the station and enjoy the fireworks here.
The northbound Starlight left SBA about the same time as our Surfliner on the 5th. That was 1:59PM.
They were in coach, I believe. They said they had traveled quite a bit on AMTRAK but the trip down on the Starlight was very rough and their car was dirty. Luckily our Surfliner trip was flawless.
Union Station was very quiet when I arrived at 4:55PM. Traxx Restaurant and Bar, where I planned to met friends, was closed for the holiday. Was it open on the 4th?
Best,
Frank in SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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You have always impressed me as one of Amtrak's most loyal and enthusiastic passengers.
You don't "cut corners" as youalways travel Sleeper.
And yet they presented you with a travel experience so deplorable that you were compelled to "abandon ship'.
I doubt if this will be your last trip but how many others confronted with conditions like those you encountered, would have simply said "enough is enough".
As for myself, just as well I am not comtemplating any trips much of anywhere until next year.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Thanks for your trip report. I'm afraid that the Sunset isn't winning Amtrak any friends.
I am on a mission to ride every route mile currently served by an Amtrak long-distance train. I'm missing a few small segments (such as Miami-Hollywood, FL) and one significantly large segment.....the Sunset between El Paso and San Antonio.
I nearly got it in July 2002 BUT my #2 was annulled (also due to a UP freight derailment) upon arriving in El Paso a mere 90 minutes late. Charter buses had been summonsed but were not expected to appear for hours. We were invited to use the train as a 'hotel' until the buses came for us.
I was ultimately changing to the Texas Eagle in San Antonio and then catching the Heartland Flyer in Ft. Worth. Since a 600 mile overnight ride on a cramped bus was no comparison for my snug standard bedroom I too 'bailed out' by getting a cab to the airport and flying Southwest to Dallas, getting a cheap hotel room, and catching Greyhound (because the Southbound Texas Eagle was 6 hours late and not going to make the connection) to Ft. Worth the next morning.
That afternoon I was on the platform clean and rested in Ft. Worth to catch the Heartland Flyer when the bus substitution passengers arrived with absolute horror stories........I'm afraid that soon only the certifiable rail fanatics (such as myself) will be the only ones left willing to take a chance on the Sunset.
------------------ David Pressley
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 07-08-2004).]
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 07-08-2004).]
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Hope everyone forgives my typos in the trip report -- I was in a hurry this morning.
Yes, I probably will ride again, but not for a while. I don't mind the trimming of amenities so much (even in first class), but the seemingly total inconsideration of passengers is beginning to grate on my good nature.
The CS is a rough ride in some places, but the scenery is a nice trade-off.
I seriously doubt that the Sunset ever reached legal maximum speed limits on my recent trip, the freight hold-ups were so frequent. Some rough track there, too, but bearable.
Met a lot of really nice folks along the way during the looong journey, two of whom helped me secure the emergency flight home from New Orleans. Terrible cab from NO station, however -- he stood in a driving rain with an umbrella over his head, while we got drenched loading our own luggage! Of course, this episode was no fault of Amtrak :^)
FYI, the food was mostly decent, better on the CS than the Sunset. Rack of lamb was good, but the same mixed vegetables were served round trip. I asked for and got a slice of Cheddar cheese melted on a piece of very good apple pie -- a small victory.
Amtrak chefs are given so little to work with these days, budget wise, they seem to have little incentive to be imaginative in the galley. But over all, dining was pretty good.
Only one of my sleeper car attendants bothered to ask occasionally if I needed anything -- he got a large tip. The others were very nice, but pretty much uninterested in deluxe service. The rooms were clean and the Deluxe room was super nice. All were the newer blue decor.
Interestingly, passengers from abroad were much less disturbed by all the problems on Train 2, including the delays and lateness, than were American riders.
I always forgive Amtrak a lot, but its performance is really on a steady downward trend.
posted
Quick note about security: There seemed to be more than usual. Especially at New Orleans and Union Station in LA. Didn't see much at Portland, Ore.
There was plenty of law enforcement at the two places mentioned above and you needed to show your ticket to get back on the train during a NO stop.
Nothing like airline security, of course, but train crews did seem to be more watchful than usual.
posted
I do hope, dixiebreeze, that you will send Amtrak your bill for the flight, taxi and any other costs you incurred. Amtrak may or may not reimburse you (it depends on their mood) but since it was Amtrak that decided to annul the train for non-emergency reasons, then I have no doubt that they have a legal obligation to make good on your extra expenses.
Four years ago Amtrak pulled that same stunt with me on the Texas Eagle and they were very difficult to deal with. I demanded $700 in compensation, and when they refused I took them to Small Claims Court and won. The downside was that it took three court appearances and almost a year before Amtrak finally paid. But if you persevere, you should receive your refund. Good luck.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
As a rail advocate, I wouldn't even consider a trip on the Sunset, so I don't blame you for being annoyed about this trip. But I wouldn't blame Amtrak. Amtrak is as much a victim of Union Pacific as you were. UP is on the threshold of a serious meltdown. Their employee morale is low, and they are horribly short-handed. Their shipping customers are unhappy, because their system lacks sufficient capacity, much less the redundancy needed to absorb unexpected events, such as the derailment that affected your trip. If this doesn't turn around soon, I predict a (more or less) replay of the Penn Central bankrupcy of three decades ago.
Amtrak is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Amtrak abandons or reroutes the Sunset, it rewards UP for bad treatment, which sends a bad message to all of the other host railroads. If Amtrak continues to run the Sunset, it alienates its own customers. There is no good solution in that situation. Nothing will improve until UP gets its act together. UP stockholders should be screaming for heads to roll.
posted
I surely do agree with your remarks, Mr. Toy. I fully realize Amtrak is a victim of UP, but at the very least, Amtrak should make public the problems on the Sunset so travelers could be forewarned.
I can't begin to count the number of passengers who actually believed they would make their connections -- and were so terribly dismayed at missing parts of their vacations, losing money, etc.
Some were onboard because it was the best way to travel with oxygen. Others ran out of medicine during the delays. Babies and toddlers were driving everyone crazy as the Sunset slowed, stopped and generally screwed up from LA to NO.
The Sunset crew voiced their angst, too, but almost to a person, they kept telling passengers everything "is the fault of Republicans." That includes conductors on that particular train.
Stupid comments from lockstep minds.
I certainly rode the Sunset during Democrat administrations and delays were frequent then, as well.
Announcements were made continuously, telling passengers to call/write their congressmen/women. Frankly, no one was in the mood for preaching -- we just wanted to get to our destination.
posted
Your bad situation aside, it does seem to me on nearly every trip I go that there are many first time Amtrak riders who know absolutely nothing about what to expect. I plan out every trip I make, especially vacations, learning about my destination, sights, hotel accomdodations, etc., but, of course, not everyone does this.
But it amazes me in the age of the internet that so many people get on trains without the foggiest notion of what is in store for them. Just a few minutes on the net would prepare them better, so they have an acomodating mindset.
posted
I don't know if you saw my reply to your "stranded" post. But for your next trip to Oregon, why not simply avoid the Sunset Limited completely?
Take a more northerly routing via Washington D.C. and Chicago. You'll see a different part of the country, spend the same number of nights onboard the trains, and have a far better chance of reaching your destination by rail and on time (give or take a few hours).
posted
Dilly, that's probably what I will do. I'm thinking of the Sunset to New Orleans, then City of New Orleans to Chicago and west to Portland on the Empire Builder. If I could figure out short way to connect with the CZ, I'd do that. I'm not anxious to go through Chicago's Union Station -- did that once and it was sooo hectic and difficult.
Posts: 133 | From: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I don't doubt it one bit. That's the "turn around" train I was on Tuesday. Pity the passengers -- it will be a looong bus ride.
Posts: 133 | From: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by dixiebreeze: Dilly, that's probably what I will do. I'm thinking of the Sunset to New Orleans, then City of New Orleans to Chicago and west to Portland on the Empire Builder. If I could figure out short way to connect with the CZ, I'd do that. I'm not anxious to go through Chicago's Union Station -- did that once and it was sooo hectic and difficult.
Hi Dixie.....and all
Just another thought.....and not to promote Southwest Airlines (which is often like a flying Greyhound) BUT Southwest does serve Baltimore/Washington International and St. Louis......both airports which have fairly easy ground transit connections to rail stations. Both would save a night enroute and bypass any need to use the Sunset or the Silver Service train(s). From St. Louis you could even access the Southwest Chief at Kansas City. Admittedly there is a two-three block walk from the light rail to the St. Louis 'amshack' and it's a bit strange to find the first time. Just head away from the nicely restored station and you'll find Amtrak lurking under an interstate overpass.
Another possibility would be flying into Newark and using the Three Rivers or Lake Shore to get to Chicago. And the first class lounge in Chicago.......a neccessary respite from the hordes of coach passengers and commuters.
Just some ideas......I have enjoyed your posts and observations on this forum. I hope that you will keep riding and keep posting!
------------------ David Pressley
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 07-09-2004).]
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 07-09-2004).]
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Hi David, those are good ideas, thank you. I really would like to find a way to ride the CZ and SW Chief. Rode the Chief years ago pre "Amtrak" and loved it.
Actually, my Southwest flight wasn't bad at all. Inexpensive fare, laid back and friendly crew and free drinks 'cause we were delayed an hour by storms in NO.
I'm thinking of taking Southwest to San Fran in August. No frills, but I like their attitude.
posted
Although I submitted this AS PART OF a message posted at another board, I thought I would take some liberty and share it here. This is my proposal for the disclaiming message that amtrak ought to be circulating, be it an attachment to a ticket envelope, a pop up at the website whenever anyone inquires about an itinerary using the Sunset, at stations, whatever:
"To Our Sunset Limited Passengers:
Owing to exceptionally heavy freight traffic being handled by our host railroads, CSX Transportation and the Union Pacific Railroad, we are obliged to advise that long delays and possible short notice annulments for portions of the route likely will occur.
In the event of an annulment necessitated after a passenger has commenced a journey, Amtrak is obliged to provide alternate transportation to a passenger's destination.
Passengers using the Sunset Limited or persons meeting arriving passengers are strongly advised to make use of either the automated telephone Train Status system, Julie, or the Check Train Status feature available at the website. Every effort will be made to ensure these resources are provided with updated information.
We regret any inconvenience caused our passengers owing to prevalent conditions experienced by our host railroads. "
If anyone at 60 Mass is logged in; guess what, I just saved you some work - and I don't want a penny for it!
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 07-09-2004).]
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
GBN, that was excellent. If you haven't already, you should consider sending that to Amtrak brass as well.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Very nice, Mr. Norman. Only improvement would be to use cancellation instead of annulment as the general public thinks an annulment is something that Ms. Spears' mother purchases.
Posts: 363 | From: Southwest North Central Florida | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
In service of complete disclosure I think it must be specified that alternate transportation will almost certainly be a long bus ride. This is what discourages me the most. All this negativity about the Sunset Limited and the mention of an 18 (eighteen!) hour bus ride has dampened my enthusiasm about a trip to FL utterly. I'm booked onto the SL from New Orleans to LA in November so I'll find out first hand then, but by then 1st class for a March trip will be much more expensive and probably out of my willingness-to-pay range. Bustitution! What a nasty image!!
[This message has been edited by City of Miami (edited 07-09-2004).]
Posts: 326 | From: San Antonio Texas USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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But would you believe the very first time I learned the term annulled was reading a New Haven Railroad timetable circa 1955. There were severe floods in New England and on various branch lines the timetable stated "service temporarily annulled".
Only later did I learn the word primarilly referred to matters within Family Law.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
You are not alone Mr. Norman. I arrived at the Bozeman, MT depot in the 70's for the North Coast Hiawatha and the board posting the estimated arrival time simply said 'Annulled'. It must be a customary railroad term.
The Yellowstone River had washed out some track and the train had been rerouted via Milwaukee Road, and a bus to Miles city was substituted.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Oh, annulment is certainly a valid railroad term (I first learned it on my 2002 18-night marathon Amtrak trip, and mentioned it in my Christian Science Monitor interview).
However, it is industry jargon and the average person doesn't know it. (Indeed, you, I and Mr. Norman can even remember where we first learned the word.) Thus, in popular writing, it should either be defined (typically parenthetically) or a common term substituted.
Posts: 363 | From: Southwest North Central Florida | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I agree that bustitution is a drag for anything over two hours. I was to make a connection in Washington ten days ago from the Capitol Limited to the southbound Super Silver. When I had made the reservations months before, there were several hours between the Capitol and the Silver Meteor, but the combination of the Star and Meteor caused the several hours to shrink to a little over an hour.
When I called to inquire what Amtrak's contingency plans were, I was told that the assessment would be made when the CL reached Pittsburgh (4:30 in the morning), as to whether or not the Silver passengers would likely make the connection. If the answer was negative (which is what ultimately happened), then Silver passengers would be bused from Pittsburgh to Washington.
There was no way that I was willing to endure a five hour bus trip, let alone be awakened at that hour and miss breakfast and lunch in the dining car. I opted to stay overnight in Washington at my expense and take the Super Silver to Miami the next day, so I changed my reservations.
posted
First, the recent "trip from hell" stories make me glad that I rode virtually the entire Amtrak system in the early 1980s -- when trains ran (mostly) on time. Only problem was the minimal dining service; Superliners were new, and on-board service no worse than today.
I still need to ride two short segments:
1) Coast Starlight via "East Valley" line, Binney Jct. to Tehama.
2) Royal Oak to Pontiac, MI
Second, "annul" has been a standard railroad term since the 19TH Century. In timetable and train order days, if a train didn't run its schedule (its authority for movement) was "annulled" or "made nothing". By extension, this became a way to refer to the train itself. I agree that Amtrak should just substitute some more generally used work such as "canceled", because really the trip is being canceled, rather than the schedule being annulled, since the schedule is no longer required as authority for movement in any case.
Posts: 614 | From: Merchantville, NJ. USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by rresor: I rode virtually the entire Amtrak system in the early 1980s.... Only problem was the minimal dining service;....
That was when they experimented with those awful microwaved meals, which were really nothing more than TV dinners. I, myself was a victim of that period. Yeech. That boob job cost Amtrak a lot of business. But in those days a lot of companies experimented with offering cheaper quality goods as an inflation fighting move. It was the "in" thing to do among business execs. All it did was create cynical customers.
posted
Some of you say - you don't understand, some blame it on the freight lines AND the most lame blame is 'blame it on the Republicans' - we had Prez. BJ for 8 years and never improved anything.
We were on the choo-choo from WPB to Orlando to change to the CS - we'll we got on and were told that we would get the CS in Jacksonville as the train was 'dirty'-so we stopped for pax, not a change-then we get to Jax and our old friend - the 'tour bus' was ready to haul us to NO to meet up with the 'dirty' train. We bailed - with a refund - and then had to drive to Vancouver, BC, Canada from Jax, FL !
We could stand lateness - breakdowns - and - Act of God things - but not lying all the way - they even knew when we checked in at WPB-cause they checked our bags to Jax - not Orlando (at 7:30am)
In spite of this, we love the chairman (he really beleives in Amtrak), and are willing to give them another chance (as we do our children !) - but no lying !! We are taking them again in Oct. Wish me luck!
quote:Originally posted by snake: Just checked on the status of the Sunset limited that's supposed to arrive at Tucson tonight: [QUOTE]As of the last report at 7:46 PM, at Houston, TX, it was running 24 hours and 57 minutes late.
[/QUOTE]
Good heavens! Looks like looong bus rides for a lot of folks, or other arrangements. Horrible!
posted
There must be a temporal anomaly somewhere along the Sunset route. Some kind or wormhole or something. Maybe if the Sunset went through the wormhole from the opposite direction it would arrive a day before it left.
[This message has been edited by Mr. Toy (edited 07-13-2004).]
posted
I think you're on to something there, Mr Toy, According to the Amtrak website this morning the Sunset Limited Arrived 43 minutes early at Los Angeles today!
posted
Complaints, complaints!!!! Let's move to Japan where the Shinkansen Bullet Train Company will give you back your whole fare spent if your bullet train is more than 5 minutes late!!! How about that for service! Dream on!
Posts: 287 | From: Palatka, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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