posted
The Crescent present route to Meridian then via Jackson, Shreveport, Dallas, Abilene, El Paso, Tucson, San Diego. Sunset and Crescent can exchange passengers in Tucson or El paso. Maybe start the Crescent in DC instead of NYC.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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That's the route Amtrak studied during the mail-and-express era a decade ago. It's called the "Crescent-Star" route. Compared to Meridian-New Orleans-El Paso, Meridian-Dallas-Abilene-El Paso is much shorter and hours faster.
One of the larger travel markets in the South is New York-Houston. Any change of trains tends to reduce this through, high-revenue ridership. A change of trains at Washington would allow use of Superliners south of there, but it would reduce the New York-Houston revenue potential.
Why not just extend the Crescent overnight (every night, not tri-weekly) from New Orleans to terminate in Houston. Probably route it via Baton Rouge in consideration that the latter probably now is the nation's largest metro area without Amtrak service.
Other major long distance travel markets are L.A.-Dallas and L.A.-Houston. So make the Texas Chief the main train via San Antonio, with no overnight delay as now. The schedule west of San Antonio would change: overnight between S.A. and El Paso and between Maricopa and L.A. Then make San Antonio-Houston a spur of the Texas Chief.
With all this, we can have through daily service Houston to Atlanta Washington and New York and keep through service from Houston to L.A. and have faster through service from Chicago and Dallas to points west of S.A.
Hope this is clear. Comments?
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by delvyrails: That's the route Amtrak studied during the mail-and-express era a decade ago. It's called the "Crescent-Star" route. Compared to Meridian-New Orleans-El Paso, Meridian-Dallas-Abilene-El Paso is much shorter and hours faster.
Don't stop it in E.P. Run it to Tucson then the southern route direct to San Diego MSA 2.8 million.
quote: One of the larger travel markets in the South is New York-Houston. Any change of trains tends to reduce this through, high-revenue ridership. A change of trains at Washington would allow use of Superliners south of there, but it would reduce the New York-Houston revenue potential.
Not really. Anyone in NYC can high speed it to DC then change trains. I wouldn't call that a hassle sense the person is tranfering to a slower LD train.
quote: Why not just extend the Crescent overnight (every night, not tri-weekly) from New Orleans to terminate in Houston. Probably route it via Baton Rouge in consideration that the latter probably now is the nation's largest metro area without Amtrak service.
Actually Phoenix is the largest. The Baton Rouge route would be much faster to Houston than the Lafayette/Lake Charles. The Sunset Route between Beaumont and New Orleans is a bunch of curves and other obstacles that slows down the Sunset. In Orange Texas for example, an eastbound train curves back west for several miles before curving back east. Why do they not straighten the line. I would run a new Sunset line next to the KCS line east of Beaumont. Then reconnect it to the existing Sunset line north of Orange. This direct line would shave hours off the current route.
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Other major long distance travel markets are L.A.-Dallas and L.A.-Houston.
Already have LA-Houston...The Sunset
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So make the Texas Chief the main train via San Antonio, with no overnight delay as now. The schedule west of San Antonio would change: overnight between S.A. and El Paso and between Maricopa and L.A. Then make San Antonio-Houston a spur of the Texas Chief.
I don't know why Amtrak does not make SA to EP overnight. More ppl would ride a 8AM train going to Houston from SA then the current 3AM train.
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With all this, we can have through daily service Houston to Atlanta Washington and New York and keep through service from Houston to L.A. and have faster through service from Chicago and Dallas to points west of S.A.
Hope this is clear. Comments?
Maybe its time to pull Amtrak hub out of N.O. Houston would be better. I could see trains out of Houston going North to Dallas/Chicago, West to SA/LA, East to DC(via Baton rouge/ATL), East to N.O./Mia, South to CC/Mexico.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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GP35's idea of terminating in San Diego is intriguing, but of course, the only route to get there these days is via Los Angeles. It would be really fun if they restored the old San Diego & Arizona Railway route, which goes via El Centro to Campo, then dips down to Tecate, Mexico, passes through the Carisso Gorge, and approaches San Diego from the south. The Mexican portion is still used for freight. A few miles of the California portion is now used for tourist trains by the San Diego Railway Museum. The last through passenger train over this route was in 1951, operated by Southern Pacific.
Posts: 133 | From: Canaan, CT | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by BNSF 1088: Houston is not a good idea at all the rail lines are cloged in that area NOL you can get thru Houston there is no way.
True, Houston rail lines are clogged today. However big changes are coming to Houston. A double line from Stafford direct to the Port, underground tunnel under the ship channel, double line from the Port direct to Dayton.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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UP will just clog it up i really think if you had 4 main tracks it still would be cloged because UP just let's there trains die on the main instead of getting them in the yard.
-------------------- Matt Marderosian Director Of Save Our Trains Michigan www.saveourtrainsmichigan
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LOL...I hope you are not just hating on UP. I do see a lot of UP/NS trains parked on the siding between Beaumont and Houston.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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we run 8,000 ft long trains sometimes but yes UP runs long trains all the time we run what our sidings can handle avarge is about 7,200ft and right around 10,000 tons
-------------------- Matt Marderosian Director Of Save Our Trains Michigan www.saveourtrainsmichigan
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gp35, agree with utlimately making the Crescent-Star route the main one across the South, Washington-Atlanta-Meridian-Dallas-El Paso-LA. Retain Meridian-NO-Baton Rouge-Houston as a spur. As the western spur, retain El Paso-Houston.
Except for NO-Houston changes, this seems well into the future. Perhaps what is politically most feasible in the next two years is the NO-Houston change. The NO-BR commuter plan will upgrade the KCS between those points and provide a BR station. The rest is reroute.
Texas is the only big state without a rail passenger program at present. How about getting their feet wet by obtaining an additional train set and running the Heartland Flyer Oklahoma City-Fort Worth-Dallas-Houston as a daily round trip? It would connect with the overnight Houston-BR-NO-etc. operation.
It's a rule of thumb in the industry that introducing a mandatory transfer en route can kill up to half of a formerly-through ridership. NY-Atlanta is the sixth largest US travel market according to figures in the NARP website. So Amtrak wants to keep at least some coaches and Viewliners going through from NY at least as far as Atlanta.
This is where the Superliner transition cars are handy. Superliners could be added gradually going west from Washington and low-level cars gradually turned back. West of Dallas and Houston, trains would be all-Superliner; and the transition cars would not be needed.
As I see on the satellite photos (maps.google.com), Houston station is on a short line parallel to the main line and thus escapes main line congestion. There appears plenty of existing yard space east of the station and freeway overpasses to create car storage space, a small terminal maintenance facility to replace the one at NO, and even to build an auto-train ramp and yard.
I have an idea for eventually adding a few auto carrier cars to all long distance trains so that a new group of passengers who wish can take their cars on a train can be added to Amtrak's ridership. I suspect it might boost Amtrak LD passenger miles 20% or more because the Auto Train experience is that virtually all of its passengers are new to Amtrak. They say they would not consider a train that did not allow them to take their cars along.
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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No, I wouldn't make Crescent main south-southwest route at expense of Sunset. The 2 trains can compliment each other. Riders out of California will have an option to go north via Dallas/Atlanta/Washington or South via San Antonio/Houston/New Orleans/Orlando(eventually) I would put in a Heartland flyer type train between NOL and Atl. Finally, I repeat, Sunset Auto-train from California to Florida would make Sunset a profit train. If done correctly.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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The Texas Eagle would join the Crescent at Fort Worth instead of San Antonio. Passengers between Fort Worth and San Antonio going to California can either ride north for the Crescent or south to meet the Sunset. It doesnt matter because both trains are going to El Paso.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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One step at a time. While we have tri-weekly service on so much mileage is not the time to add a lot of costly new route miles and train miles.
Developing existing trains and services to make them more useful costs less; and if it's done astutely, it generates more passenger miles and revenues to reduce the federal funding needed to support Amtrak LD trains. That seems to mollify the hard-liners in Congress.
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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What about a train El Paso-ABQ? There should be some strong ridership there and it's on BNSF rails! You could make it a day train to ABQ then run it back later that afternoon.
quote:Originally posted by delvyrails: One step at a time. While we have tri-weekly service on so much mileage is not the time to add a lot of costly new route miles and train miles.
Developing existing trains and services to make them more useful costs less; and if it's done astutely, it generates more passenger miles and revenues to reduce the federal funding needed to support Amtrak LD trains. That seems to mollify the hard-liners in Congress.
Nothing we suggest will ever happen. However the current network is awful. You can't develope it without adding trains and new routes. A cross country crescent along side Sunset with connecting trains between DFW/SAT and ATL/NOL opens up new areas with more population to serve. Amtrak just doesn't have enough options. More trains and routes give more options.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SunsetLtd: What about a train El Paso-ABQ? There should be some strong ridership there and it's on BNSF rails! You could make it a day train to ABQ then run it back later that afternoon.
I agree with these short routes. ELP-ABQ PHX-TUC GAL-HOU-DAL NOL-ATL HOU-SAN JAX-MIA SLC-LAS LAS-LAX BTR-NOL HOU-BTR-NOL
These trains would have 1 engine and 4 coaches. 1 Diner-lite coach run by a franchise like Subway. 3 coach.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Having ridden Albuquerque-El Paso in 10/67 after connecting from the Super Chief, agree with your observations. At least New Mexico is interested in commuter rail and has discussed long service extensions of upcoming Rail Runner north and south.
Amtrak will not consider anything local like this without substantial local and state support.
One method is to extend Rail Runner service southward to El Paso. Since almost all of the run is within New Mexico, there should be hope for state funding for a round trip exending an afternoon southbound commuter run from Belen to El Paso and returning to fill in as a late morning run from Belen northward.
BTW, Santa Fe's schedule was 6-11:40pm southbound, 6:45am-12:30pm northward, 19 stops en route, 252.8 miles.
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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