As a station employee for over 26 years, if I had a dollar for everytime I was insulted when telling someone the train was late, I could retire. Do you people realize I had NOTHING to do with it? Do you people realize I don't like it either when the train is late? Do you people realize that like today, the train will be late tomorrow, with no accountability by any one above the field worker level? Yet let me be the reason for one of those service vouchers being issued and I have to answer for it. Do you realize that Amtrak operations at times has no idea where the train is at, no idea how long a delay will be, and we cannot get any info regarding the delay? It's even worse in the last 3 weeks.
Do you realize that the reason 80% of the service vouchers are issued is because of late trains? Has anything been done to improve the performance? Nothing.
I'm sick and tired of taking abuse from idiot passengers or people waiting for trains, abusing me for things that I cannot control. I do try to help, but get off my back, i'm doing the best I can with the tools at my disposal, and the support backing me up, which is next to nothing.

Oh yeah, to all of you people that think we make so much money. Here you want to know? I made 42,000.00 last year. What did I give up for that? Nights with my family. Weekends, holidays, my kids basketball games, football games, track. To go to work, not get any backing for anything I do, and take abuse from fools.

One more thing. That vast majority I deal with are decent, understanding, people. That i'll bend over backwards to try to help. But 5% of the people are foul, disgusting, individuals, that the train should run over.

[This message has been edited by disgusted (edited 03-22-2002).]

No, it wasn't her fault. She doesn't maintain locomotives. But she is responsible for the safety of the train and its passengers, she made a bad decision in allowing the train to proceed from Poughkeepsie, NY when the loco had already failed once, and she certainly had no right to talk that way to a paying passenger.

He's a perfect expamle. This conductor in your opinion made a bad decision, why? because she wanted to keep the train moving and it brokedown again. I guess she should of predicted that?

But who controls the manual or electronic arrival status reports within stations? For example:

- The San Bernardino station in years past had 'on time' in plastic letters listed next to the train times on the schedule board. The sign was never changed even when the trains were running late.

- The Philadelphia station electronic sign listed an Acela train as first 'arriving' and then 'now boarding' before the train had even arrived at the station. Are station personnel "forced" to overstate the timeliness of the trains?

- The Stamford, CT station did not even list the Acela trains on its electronic monitor, yet I had a ticket for the train. It was only after talking to a (courteous) station agent that I verified that the train was running.

But, on my train, after being 15 hours late, the passengers are all dirty, smelly, exhausted, and mentally frayed. There were young mothers with screaming babies and little toddlers to take care of. There was a blind man, senior citizens walking with canes who had to sleep all night on a wooden bench in Sacremento. When we loaded the buses in Portland I was shocked to see all the elderly in wheelchairs who were stuffed in that train, who didn't see the light of day for nearly 48 hours.

What I'm trying to say is if the Amtrak employees keep going off on the passengers, (and the other way around,) then a bad situation just feeds on itself and a long distance journey is a nightmare on tracks.

For the employees part, the ones with the real people skills can do an amazing job at diffusing a situation getting out of control. In portland, there was some higher up "Meg" and not only did she answer passengers concerns, but she opened the dining car to free breakfast and served coffee. When the buses pulled up to take us to Seatttle, she hauled baggage, then road with us to Seattle. When we arrived, she directed with passengers connecting to Vancouver, and I grabbed my bag and left, but I'd be willing to bet she was unloading baggage also. When we were telling her we didn't know how she kept so professional during a such a chaotic situation, she said, "People skills can't be taught, either you have them or you don't."
We were all teling her what wonderful jobs she could get with the airlines but she said she hates flying. We told her she could be a airport director.

I personally cannot remember a time that I have been impolite to an Amtrak employee, and I never remember a time that I blamed an employee on a problem that was beyond his control (being late for example). Typically, I am a polite person in any circumstance, whether on a train or not. I realize that many people probably treat Amtrak employees very rudely, and they should not. Employees deserve repect from the passengers. I am a high school teacher, and I feel the same way as you do when rude students cause problems, and it is very unfair to most of my students who are good, hard working polite people.

With all of this said, it still comes down to the fact that when a person pays for a ride on Amtrak, they should be able to expect being treated courteously by the employees. No matter how previous passengers have treated employees, the employees still do not have the right to treat other polite passengers rudely. And they definetely have no right to be yelling obscene language, including the "F" word in front of any passengers including my children. That has happened twice to me and I see no excuse for that.

From reading the posts on this forum, it seems that it would be obvious to anybody that Amtrak has a problem with rude employees. At least people perceive that there is a problem, and just the perception is enough that Amtrak should do something about it.

Konstantin: I appreciate your reflecting on and changing the tone of your posts. I think more folks will read them and think about them now. I certainly do.

My two cents: Here we are, all concerned about this issue and all struggling because we feel powerless to control the source of the problem. So we attack each other out of frustration and anger. I see that changing in this thread. How then, do i identify and get through to those who do control this? Problems I see: it is an issue of money and there is no perceived fiscal profit for corporation stock holders - and thus bonuses for CEO's - in rail passenger transportation; and more people evidently want to drive and fly than take trains. That didn't start when the passenger service was poor and infrequent and expensive. It started as auto and plane travel became more convenient and more in people's control and more lucative for the tire and oil and quto industries. Rail passenger business became less and less lucrative. And we have collectively bowed to this trend with highways and little investment in long term, fuel efficient, resource saving methods of transportation. I want what I want when I want it. Money buys us through problems but that denial of larger issues is getting us in trouble.

Thta is aside from the immdeiate issue of what happens when I have paid for a service I am told I can get and then don't get it. Of course I get mad. The same is true when I go to work - the employer agrees to provide a certain circumstance and then doesn't and leaves me to fill insulate the company from the customer's anger. Not viable for anyone if it goes on. Employees feel trapped as ey have families and commitments, customers feel trapped - and literally are trapped on the train. They attack each other. To whom do we turn now?

How do I convince our elect legislators to support something that (i think) better serves the country and the planet in the long term? How do I get local officials to invest in public transportation facilities - inter/antra state - without regard to the moiney they may get from a major multi national that owns food and cigarettes and oil and steel and farms and automobiles.

I shall not go any farther into my politics lest we get into religion as well.. And then the labeling that we are now getting away from would, I fear, really fly.

But this thread has seemed to me the most productive in a long time. Again Konstantin and Disgusted - Thanks!!

Meanwhile: I ride the trains, I call, I write, I vote, I picket, I boycott, I phone, I email, I attend meetings, I try to pick my battles.

My next gripe up the line is this. Since they took the phones away from the conductors, train status has gotten spotty. The engines have GPS equipment that update once an hour,(why an hour, should be every 10 minutes)but what happens? The engineers turn the set off. Just sent another message up the line regarding that fact. I just never learn.

Quick story regarding the 5% of people that I consider idiots.
Yesterday, one of my trains was 30 minutes late. Not bad considering how they've been running. A guy walks in the door, I tell him when the train will be in. He starts demanding a "rebate". I ask a rebate for what? For his time waiting for the train to come in. I laugh. He starts in one me that "no wonder no one rides the train" I tell him that's not true someone has to be on it. He says "why?" I said, your here aren't you? His face turned red and stormed out.

Last week I was attacked here on the Forum (and sadly, through private email as well) for simply taking the position that if Amtrak promises to get me to my destination at a specific time (THEIR OWN advertised time), I should expect to arrive at that destination somewhere NEAR that time. I still believe that my paid ticket gives me the right to at least have that EXPECTATION. However, as one very informative email-writer to me pointed out, Amtrak doesn't own the tracks. So, it's now clear to me that my expectations will rarely be satisfied.

I'd like to see Amtrak discard those misleading timetables that show departures/arrivals right down to the minute. I'd rather see them use the more general terms "mid-morning" or "late afternoon" ... or even show three-hour time frames such as "arrives between 6 am - 9 am."

Yes, I know people will complain about such imprecise timings, but as you said, they will come back.

At the very least, I think Amtrak should be upfront with the traveling public and tell riders that arrivals and departures are based solely on the availability of track. Many travelers are completely in the dark (as I was until hearing from my helpful correspondent) about the REAL reasons for delays.

I empathize with the service employees like "disgusted" who are forced to put up with the ridiculous and unreasonable demands from some passengers. I wouldn't have that job for twice the salary he's paid. It's too bad that so many have forgotten the Golden Rule, but I think that reflects where society is today.

You LAUGHED! Where were you taught that to laugh at the person that pays your salary was good customer service? And then you mock him back...and he leaves mad?

WOW! I would fire you if you worked for me in a second.

I get paid far less than you and I have to deal with rude people all day, especially when the stock market is bad ( like it is my fault...like the late train is your fault).

But NEVER would I laugh at someone! Never would I try to put them "in their place". Only once did I stand up to a predjudicial ( Jew hating comment).

About missing all your family life, that is not my fault as a customer of Amtrak. Please don't take it out on me. If you are unhappy with your job, look for something else. I took a huge , more than 1/2 pay cut so I could just be home to pick up kids from school. Missing my family life was not my client's or my employer's fault.

Do I know you? Can't recall taking anything out on you or any customer,

I guess it wasn't clear to us that the guy who demanded a 'rebate' wasn't a customer, but just a trouble-maker. I think I get the picture now. I don't blame you for putting him in his place.

Back to an earlier comment: so the locomotive engineers turn off the GPS transmitter?? I guess that keeps down the radio traffic. That may explain why some of the automatic train status times (from "Julie" at the 800 number) are several hours late...

I agree with you about the timetables. Why can't Amtrak just let customers know from the beginning that they will probably be late. If people know that it can happen and are prepared for it, then there are far less problems to deal with. I mentioned this same idea in a previous post on this forum. I was balked at by the people who repsonded. I might have even been called a "whiner".

The coverup is worse than the problem. Amtrak is like Richard Nixon with Watergate. Just admit they have a problem and people can deal with it.

For those of you who always need the facts (which are not important here: as long as there is a perceived problem, then the facts are almost irrelevant): A potential traveler can find the on-time status by calling Amtrak or by looking on their website, but most people do not do that. They assume that Amtrak has a fairly reliable on time status.

I do think there's a good methaphor here, for mis-communication: from the engineer disconnecting the GPS to the accounting procedures that hide where things are spent (at AMTRAK or elsewhere) to hidden donations to political parties and candidates to train staff virtually vanishing for hours enroute to some guy coming into the station and acting in a confrontational manner even though he is not a passenger. There's a fight over limited resources, sort of like salad bar etiquette (that may be an oxymoron) when there is very little of everything. I distrust any person in power who withholds info (the blank tapes), I find it hard to trust their stated agenda. We may get a great executive/manager in charge of AMTRAK. S/he will be powerless without resources.

But if we collectiveely do pressure for money for tracks and rights of way, for stations and equipment, for staff training and management training, for as significant a role in transporting us as the higways and automobiles have, then there is a rainbow at the end of the tunnel.

I agree that I want to be told the actual arrival time as closely as possible. I also know that info is incorrect sometimes, and so I go to the station on time. Just what am I entitled to when I purchase a ticket on AMTRAK? And what do I know I am likely to experience? The point and problem in blaming and demanding satisfaction from someone like Disgusted is that s/he may not be in a position to resolve the situation and the nastier we get the more the interaction becomes a problem rather than addressing the endemic problems.

What a mess this is. All I want to do is be able to travel by train once in a while and trust that I'll have a safe and fun time. And mostly, I do.

Oh, I just can't help it. Back to what got me started this time: Nixon or _______ (insert your favorite) is gone but the problems of corruption, dishonesty, sexual picadillos, you-name-it in government, live on. So we can eliminate an employee we don't like but we don't become who we are in a vacuum. If we want to change the "culture" of AMTRAK we have to also look at the culture which supports it.

CK - thanks for your comment to me and for your help with the Tahoe info. My friends are on their way prepped with schedules etc from Truckee.

I work in the stock market, and I too have had people demand money ( thousands) because the market tanked. Out of my control. But to laugh at them would nulify their concerns.

Ok...I know I sound like a customer service freak! Well I am. If someone treats me great, I go just as far to make sure their boss knows it. I just sent a raving review to Avis about their employees in El Paso.

I hear Amtrak has eliminated the second person in the cab when the time between crew changes is not more than eight hours. That should be most runs. Most train stops are short as possible. When they come to a scheduled long stop, The engineer may need to answer to nature. The last thing I want someone driving a train I’m on, is playing with a computer they have to unclip off the wall, and set on the control stand, in front of their controls to type on. We knew when we first installed them no one would use them. They should be back on the train so the conductor could get to them. One of the requirements for most of the management jobs that are posted is a BA. A BA in anything will do, like physical education. Most of us in the field don’t have BA’s. That makes us stupid. So no one listens. Opps again.

However, On the Lakeshore Limited I observed dining car crew members swearing at each other throughout the trip in the presence of passengers. At one point I heard the cook tell the waiter, "get the F### out of my kitchen." On this trip, I did ask for a voucher because these people came accross as absolutely not caring about their job or the passengers.