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Well, my August trip is coming up shortly, and I'm quite excited. But though I'm keeping my fingers crossed, the track records right now don't look so great on some of the trains I'm taking. If any one has any advice (see some specific questions below), please let me know.
I take the Capitol Ltd to Chi and then am going on the Zephyr reroute through Wyoming. Any advice on what to look for on that route, and WHEN? The itinerary I found for the old Pioneer is very unclear about the when.
I wound up having to go COACH on the Zephyr. (I was going to stop en route but because of the reroute cannot.) I will bring a pillow and no doubt manage. I don't know that I'll be able to change my seat for the whole trip, so I'm figuring I should take a seat on the right side facing forward because of the lovely scenery crossing the Sierras into Sacramento; of course, I will try to be in the observation car as much as possible and can move around there, but in case it's full or something, I want to sit on the best side of the train. Does this all sound like a good idea to those who've done it?
The Zephyr keeps getting into Emeryville and thus San Francisco WAY LATE. I am taking the shuttle to Fisherman's Wharf (where my hotel is) but am worried about getting from the shuttle stop to my hotel. The hotel is close but not close enough so that I'd want to walk with luggage in the middle of the night. Unless the shuttle will take me straight to my hotel (which I know someone here once said they may do, but I certainly cannot count on it), I gather I have to phone a taxi when I'm coming in from Emeryville. But will a taxi be willing to show up in the middle of the night for such a short fare? And what happens if I phone and they say they'll be there but aren't? I got 3 taxi numbers from Amtrak--Yellow Cab, De Soto, and City Cab. Is there a particular taxi line you recommend?
After my friend joins me in San Francisco, one thing we'd like to see is the Muir Woods. There is a Gray Line tour to do this but it also includes Sausalito, to which we've both been. Should we do that tour anyway, or is there another easy way to go visit the Muir Woods (without a car)?
After San Francisco, we are supposedly taking the Coast Starlight south to San Luis Obispo. It has been WAY WAY LATE the past few weeks too. Amtrak says that on the morning we leave, we do have to take our scheduled shuttle to Jack London Square, a manned station, and then find out what's up with the CS there. If the train is way late, will they put us on a bus? (The woman I spoke with didn't know.) What if the buses are full? Of course I'd love to take the train regardless of how late it is, but while my friend would be willing to wait maybe 2-3 hours in Oakland, I don't think she will be up for more than that; she really wants to see something of San Luis Obispo.
I gather the Coast Starlight to SLO is quite scenic. Does the bus go on the coast, or is it an inland route? Will it be at all scenic?
We will be staying in SLO a second night so that we hopefully can also see the Hearst Castle. Is the public bus that goes there OK to rely on? There are only 2 round trips a day. It leaves very early in the morning and comes back just after 11. (If we miss that, we would have to wait till 5 in the afternoon, which means we lose the whole day.) There is also something called Ride-on, but it's rather expensive. The third alternative is to rent a car for the day. My friend doesn't mind doing that. It costs less than the Ride-on (but more than the public bus), and then we can be on our own schedule and stop for lunch on the way back in Morro Bay, for example. But will we spend too much time picking the car up and dropping it off at the SLO airport? Since we don't know when we are getting in the day before, we cannot pick it up then. (If we take the Coast Starlight rather than a bus, I'm sure we'll get in too late to pick it up anyway.)
Or do you advise that we just skip the Hearst Castle and simply enjoy SLO? Could we take a taxi to and from Morro Bay, or would that cost too much?
After SLO we are doing Pacific Surfliners (yay) until my friend flies out of LA. Then I leave on the Sunset Ltd, changing for the Texas Eagle. I decided to go that way, even though it's a day longer for me, because I wanted to ride those 2 trains (both are new trains for me), esp as the SL is so endangered. I then catch the Lakeshore Ltd east from Chicago.
I have roomettes all the way for the return trip, but I've never been to LA station before and have I think about 4 hours layover there. Does anyone have any particular advice--like where to find the first-class lounge in LA station, where to leave luggage since I want to dump it and walk around?
As for the trip home itself, I have the route guide from USA RAIL for the SL or TX Eagle, but does anyone have any particular advice on what to look for, what to do on any long stops (esp in the daytime) on either train, where I get the best view of Mexico (if I do), etc etc. . . .
Finally, anyone with any news on the weather situation? Is the heat supposed to break in the next few weeks in CA????
Thanks for the advice, everyone!!!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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I have taken the Grayline tour to Muir Woods - it is a lovely place with a short/medium/long walking trail through it. (You choose how long you want by using the cut throughs to the return trail.) The Sausalito part of the tour is really just a quick stop (45 minutes or so) on the return trip. Done for those who want to pop in to the gift shops. Me -- I chose to go sit by the water as there is a very nice park where they stop. If you are lucky, like I was, they will also make a quick "detour" to the Marin Headlands where you get a spectacular view of the Golden Gate Bridge. Our tour guide billed this as a "you've been a great group extra" but I suspect it may be a regular thing unless they are running late. Grayline also does several All-City tours - They are short -- only a few hours but I enjoyed the one I took.
If you are still planning on staying at the Tuscan Inn -- then get off the shuttle at Fishermans Wharf. It is a two block walk to the hotel -- and these are extremely short blocks. Probably a five minute walk if that. (I have some mobility problems and had no problem walking this distance.) Yes do ask the shuttle bus driver if he can take you direct to hotel if it is very late - never hurts to ask. While you are there -- do be sure to walk over to Pier 39 (just 3 blocks from the Tuscan)and check out the sea lions and the view of Alcatraz from the end of the pier. Lots of shops, resturants and "street entertainment" on the pier. Good place to catch breakfast or lunch.
And my best advice -- Have fun !!!
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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Hi Sojourner - as somebody who has been to SLO many times I can offer the following:
The route from San Jose to SLO is ALL INLAND by both bus or train - the scenic coastal views don't start until you get about 20 miles south of SLO, then it is the most wonderful train journey all along the sea front almost to the outskirts of LA. Just make sure you are sitting on the right hand side of the train.
The local bus company in SLO is very reliable. Should you abandon your plans for Hearst Castle, you don't need a taxi to Morro Bay - the number 12 bus runs between Morro and SLO every hour until about 7 at night and the fare will be no more than about $1.50 one way.
The best views of Mexico on the Sunset come as you approach El Paso - the train goes within (literally) about 20 yards of the border and looks over what can best be described as a rather grim shanty town on the Mexican side. The "border" at that point is nothing more than a four foot high wire fence and when I went past last year there was a large group of Mexican children, none of them older than ten, playing an impromptu game of soccer and they were clearly on the US side of the boundary!
Finally, I don't about the weather in California but here in England we're having one of the hottest summers on record. It's been in the high 80s and 90s for almost all of the last two months and that's not bad considering we're on a latitude north of Seattle.
Posts: 395 | From: england | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ms. Sojourner - you always ask so many questions!!!!!!!!!!! I can answer a couple of these for you. First of all, the most scenic part of the CS is actually south of San Luis Obispo, where the train goes along the coast. North of SLO it's mainly Salinas Valley agricultural fields. And if the CS is late, you may miss the coastal scenery during daylight, but the Pacific Surfliners take the same route, so if you leave SLO in the AM, you will still see the scenic coastal areas.
There is no "first class lounge" in Los Angeles Union Station, but if you have time, there is a nice "garden" area outside one of the side doors which is pleasant to sit in for a while, or you can walk down to Phillipe's for a quick meal if you have time (Phillipe's - sawdust floor, place your order at the counter, then you sit "family style" on large long tables -- Phillipe's has always reminded me of "Mel's Diner" in the 1970's/80's sitcom "Alice").
You can take your luggage to the baggage services area in LAUPT, and they will store it for you between trains. That area used to be on the far left toward the "train gates" end of the station, but I don't know where it may be now.
Can't speak for the bus connections you asked about -- if these are dedicated AMTRAK "Thruway" busses, they WILL wait for the train no matter how late it is.
That's about it from my angle -- I'm sure others here can address your other questions.
--Rich K
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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P.S. I forgot one thing, Ms. S -- you don't have to wait until you get to Jack London Square to find out how late the "Coast Starlate" will be -- I would suggest calling "Julie" at the 1-800 # before you leave for Jack London Square, or if you have Internet access, you can check the "train status" section of the AMTRAK web site..
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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I don't know why there isn't a First Class Lounge at LAUPT (the former Fred Harvey Restaurant area would be great but I know that the current owners of the building rent it out for private functions) but there isn't. There are actually two garden areas, one on each side of the main concourse.
RR is giving you great advice on Philippe's. In the MANY years I've been going there I've only had the lamb French Dip (reputedly invented there) but have heard good things about the chili and meatloaf. I've never been there for breakfast but I'd bet it is good. There are some great model trains and, if it's crowded, go upstairs. You'll see a real cross section of LA there. Railroad folks, cops, judges, lawyers, and the occasional "star". One unusual "quirk" you should be aware of is that when it comes time to pay your server at the counter will put a small tray out for your money. They'll take it to the cashier and return with your change. They don't touch money. I usually leave a dollar or two as a tip depending on how many of us are eating.
If it's lunch time and you like dim sum take the DASH bus from in front of Union Station (25 cents) or the Gold Line to China Town and the Empress Pavillion. Great dim sum in a huge place. We have rarely broken $10.00 per person and always leave stuffed.
In SLO try the Blue Sky Cafe. Great food at reasonable prices.
Have a great trip.
Frank in soon to be sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Recently (end of May) got back from a Houston-L.A. roundtrip on the Sunset Limited. As mr williams says, the best view of Mexico (and closest approach) is to be had entering El Paso. You might also be interested to know that the body of water on your right as you depart Palm Springs is the Salton Sea, created (in its modern form) when the Colorado River overpowered an irrigation canal's control dike in 1905. It threatened to flood the entire Imperial Valley until an around-the-clock effort by the Southern Pacific managed to stem the flooding and divert the Colorado back into its original channel.
Another must-see if your train is anywhere near on time is the high bridge over the Pecos River (50 miles west of Del Rio, 80 miles east of Sanderson). We passed it in daylight westbound, and the view was spectacular. Railfans will want to sit on the north side of the train; the foundations for the old bridge are clearly visible along with the remains of a steam era water tank. Unfortunately, on our return trip we were 4 hours behind schedule and the sun set on us just before we crossed the bridge.
Finally, when the Texas Eagle makes its approach to St. Louis it skirts the west bank of the Mississippi River for at least 15-20 miles (maybe more); this made a nice backdrop for breakfast in the diner on my last trip to Chicago in '04. The routing over the Mississippi between St. Louis and Alton is subject to change without notice, but the bridge our train was routed over gave us a great view of St. Louis and the Gateway Arch as we crossed.
If you're lucky, there may be "Trails and Rails" presentations presented by National Park Service guides between Alpine and Del Rio on the SL and between St. Louis and Chicago on the TE. I only caught a bit over the loudspeaker on the Sunset (no Sightseer Lounge, and the kids wanted to watch "Mulan"-- ), but the presentation on the St. Louis-Chicago corridor was excellent.
Finally, I know little about California these days (been twenty years since I was stationed there), but I do rate the Hearst Castle as a not-to-be-missed attraction. RRRich is correct about the location of the LAUPT baggage claim office; it is just to the north (behind the rental car desks) of the point at which the train concourse gives way to the waiting area.
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thanks for all the info. Sorry to ask so many questions!
I am an old hand at phoning Julie, Mr Rich, but the thing is, we have to take the shuttle to Jack London Sq, Oakland when it leaves the unmanned area at Fisherman's Wharf regardless of how late the train at Jack London Square may be. I mean, there is no guarantee that just because the train south from Oakland is late, there will be a later shuttle at an appropriate time to get us to it. Anyway, based on the info here, what I think is, if the CS is more than 3 hrs late and they offer the next scheduled bus to SLO, we'll definitely take it. BUT I'm wondering--do those buses fill up, and would that mean we couldn't get on the next scheduled one? Should we simply change our booking and book on a bus? If we do that, I have to do it well in advance because we have a sleeper. The Amtrak woman I spoke with said not to do it--but I don't know. I just don't want to get caught on a 7-hr late train with my friend, or dawdling around Jack London Square for all that time (and not being able to go far not knowing when the train will really come)--if I were alone I wouldn't care, but my friend is NOT a train person. Still, I really wanted to take the CS with a sleeper, see the Parlour Car and so on.
Mr or Ms Bowen: What is this about no sightseer lounge on the Sunset Ltd . . . does that mean my sleeper could be on the wrong side of the train for seeing the things you mention? Which side is better for these things--well, I can figure out the MExican border but for the rest? Also, from your description that also seems to be the side for seeing the Mississippi on the Texas Eagle--is St Louis also seen out the right window? And is there a sightseer lounge on the Texas Eagle after San Antonio at least???
Also, does anyone know anything I should know about the Wyoming detour on the Zephyr?
Thanks again for all your help!!!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Back some time ago, I was able to take the Pioneer (before it was discontinued.) That route followed the part through Wyoming (then down into Denver.)
I remember being very excited about the possibility of seeing rugged, snow-capped mountains for the part of the journey through Wyoming , BUT was very disappointed that this was NOT the case at all.
The landscape is very "hilly" and dry. There really is nothing special to see at all through there , in my estimation. Thus it is a major disappointment compared to the scenery you would enjoy if you were able to take the Zephyr's regular route between Salt Lake City and Denver. Sorry.
Your trip sounds like a lot of fun.
I remember the days when the Sunset HAD a Sightseer Lounge. I always enjoyed the approach into El Paso (from both directions) and the views into Mexico across the Rio Grande into Juarez. It's a shame that car got eliminated from the train.
I have also enjoyed the Starlight in its "prime." Terrific service , food , entertainment and other amenities. A Parlor Car on EVERY train. Reasonably close to a "regular" schedule.
Infortunately, today , I am not certain I would really enjoy EITHER of those trains---at least not for "top dollar."
At least I am glad I took the opportunity to ride both the Sunset and the Starlight earlier on.
Posts: 187 | From: Pittsburgh , PA | Registered: Apr 2001
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The rerouted California Zephyr, while not Colorado, will be rewarding I think. About two to three hours out of Denver you will cross Sherman Pass and descend into Laramie, WY. The scenery here is everything you would expect from the old Western movies.
If you can get your hands on an old timetable or route guide for the Pioneer (say early 90's to 1997) it will give you an idea of the towns along the way. If you look hard you can still see traces of when Amtrak operated regular service on this route. The pad in the middle of nowhere which was the Borie station (with shuttle bus the 8 miles into Cheyenne) or the platform now separated by a chain-link fence from the old UP station in Laramie.
No......I didn't see snow-capped peaks when I rode the re-route (intentionally I will add) in 2004 BUT I did ride through a JUNE snowstorm in Evanston, WY.
I'll concede that this isn't a route you'll come back for time after time but if it is one you have not ridden before I think it is one that will interest you.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sojourner, I just checked my route guide file and I have 2 guides (the old ones) for the CZ that includes both the Pioneer and the Desert Wind. If you want to send me a private e mail with an address I would be happy to send one of them to you. Obviously I don't need two copies.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Mr or Ms Bowen: What is this about no sightseer lounge on the Sunset Ltd . . . does that mean my sleeper could be on the wrong side of the train for seeing the things you mention? Which side is better for these things--well, I can figure out the MExican border but for the rest? Also, from your description that also seems to be the side for seeing the Mississippi on the Texas Eagle--is St Louis also seen out the right window? And is there a sightseer lounge on the Texas Eagle after San Antonio at least???
First off, it's "Mr."; there is as yet no "Mrs." unless you count my mother. When we took the Sunset round trip in May, there was no Sightseer Lounge; just a snack coach (regular coach upstairs, small snack bar downstairs). The dining car crew was willing to let us play cards and dominos at the dining car tables between meals, but otherwise there really wasn't a place to gather. However, if you want to sit in coach for a while to catch a glimpse of something on the far side of the train, I don't think anyone will really mind. There was a sightseer on the Texas Eagle in '04 but that was before "Diner Lite"; I don't know if the car is still running or if it's been pulled to be rebuilt to the new combined configuration.
As for the best views (assuming you are facing the direction of travel as the train moves eastbound/northbound): Salton Sea--right side. Mexican border--right side. Pecos River bridge--good view either side but left side preferred for a view of the old bridge foundations and old water tank. I hope you pass it in daylight; this bridge is 265 feet above the water and the canyon is spectacular. Mississippi River (approaching St. Louis)--right side. Mississippi River crossing--depends on which bridge they route you across between St. Louis and Alton, IL. If they send you across the Macarthur bridge (to the south) you'll have a great view of St. Louis, the Eads Bridge, and the Gateway Arch to your left. If they route you across the Merchants' bridge (to the north) you'll travel in a tunnel past the Gateway Arch, come out in the open just as you pass underneath the western approach of the Eads Bridge (with the Mississippi on your right and a solid brick wall on your left), and then cross the river well north of downtown; what view of the city you have will be to your right. (The Macarthur bridge crossing, needless to say, is much to be preferred.)
Have a great trip!
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thanks everyone for the info! Train Lady, that is so kind of you to offer your guide, but I will use the on line one so that you can save yours for future value. Maybe one day it will be worth a lot of money!
I'm confused about the Sunset Ltd setup. Isn't the Texas Eagle part of the Sunset Ltd heading east from L.A.? If so, can't one walk through to the sightseer lounge in the Texas Eagle? Or is the sightseer lounge attached only in San Antonio?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Texas Eagle and the Sunset Limited use separate trainsets; they simply share a coach and a sleeping car (usually the last two cars on the train). Remember, the TE operates daily while the Sunset is triweekly; the TE set (except for the cars being exchanged with the Sunset) is turned every night in San Antonio. If you're making the connection they will probably put you in the sleeper at the tail end of the Sunset Limited, and if everything goes according to plan they will detach your two cars in San Antonio as you sleep and you will awaken to find your car attached to the rear of the Texas Eagle trainset. So if the SL is not running a Sightseer you are out of luck for that stretch of your trip, but if there is a Sightseer on the Texas Eagle you will have access to it from San Antonio onwards.
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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I saw the westbound Texas Eagle make it's station stop in Temple on July 23rd. (2 and 1/2 hours late but still moving) The consist was - 1 locomotive, 1 transition sleeper, 1 diner, 1 sightseer lounge, 3 coaches, 1 sleeper. From having taken the Sunset/Eagle El Paso - St. Louis in 2005 I would say that the last coach and rear sleeper that I just saw would continue on to LAX on the Sunset.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sojourner, have a great trip. I (we)will be eager to read your report. I am interested in your "take" on the food situation. There have been so many differing reports.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I had no real trouble with the food in May, though. I liked the food a lot on the Capitol Ltd going west and the Empire Builder going west; the CL had gone "lite" but not the EB.
I did not like the food too much (other than breakfast, which was fine) on the EB going east; the salmon was dry, the choices second night were not very good, something called turkey tenderloin was disgusting, and iron steak not too appetizing. I didn't want dry fish again, and the chicken is so big, so I had a pot pie of sorts, which wasn't bad. But that was on the EB that had NOT gone lite!
The meals back on the Lakeshore Ltd, which had gone lite, were fine.
I am much more worried about timekeeping than food, though. The Zephyr and Coast Starlight delays have been outrageous now for weeks, and while I don't care about the Zephyr too much (other than arriving in San Francisco in the middle of the night) I am very concerned that the Starlight situaton could waste way too much of a full day of our whole trip. I am still thinking of changing to bus but haven't had time to really consider it.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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), but the presentation on the St. Louis-Chicago corridor was excellent.
