posted
Why are they always in the front of the consist when on Superliner trains, the sleepers are in the back? I think the back of the train is where the sleepers should be, since it's much quiter back there. Or have things changed with the Viewliners these days? What about the LAKE SHORE LIMITED? Or the CRESCENT?
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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Most Superliners have the sleepers at the front. There are a couple of trains, such as the Sunset Ltd and the Empire Builder where there are sleepers at (or near) the back but I think generally the sleepers are on the front.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I think where the Viewliners were placed in the consist had something to do with car height. The Viewliners were designed to match the Heritage fleet cars for height and it made sense to put them on the front just behind the baggage and crew cars and just in front of the dining car. The drop off in height came when the newer amfleet lounges and coaches started at mid-train.
It has been my experience that Superliner sleepers generally operate towards the front of the trains too......the exceptions being, as Geoff notes, the through Chicago-LAX sleeper which is at the rear of the Eagle/Sunset and the Portland sleeper at the rear of the Empire Builder.
I once rode an eastbound California Zephyr with the sleepers at the rear BUT that was because the westbound train the night before had arrived so late that they didn't take the time to turn the consist.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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While it may be a little noisier on the front, if the train is long there will be less slack action. Also, trains do tend to wag their tail when moving, so unless there is freight behind the last passenger car, the last car always has more side to side sway and other motion than any other car on the train. Unless you are immediately behind the engine, I can tell little difference between the noise level in any car from the second back. Maybe a little more whistle close to the front, but once you get used to it, you can sleep right through it, but then I grew up not too far from the Frisco main line, and they did blow with enthusiasm for all crossings.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Speaking of train whistles, is there any meaning to the various patterns they emit? Having just spent 36+ hours on several trains I listened to a lot of whistles. They seemed to blare prior to intersections in towns but I heard all different patterns of long and short. By the way, our sleeper was near the front of the train - two engines, baggage, crew sleeper and then ours. The noise of the whistle was not a problem, it was very pleasant.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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I would be a happier camper if Amtrak were to place Sleepers where the railroads generally placed them - on the rear.
I can well recall an Aug 2003 Chi-Memphis trip where the Sleeper was immediately behind the engine. I think I can tell you where every X-ing is along the route.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I used to say Google knew everything (or at least knew where everything was). Now Wikipedia is starting to take over! Vicki, this page tells you everything you ever wanted to know about train whistles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_whistle
There is something dreamy about US train whistles...
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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On the Empire Builder, the Portland sleeper is on the rear & the Seattle sleepers are on the front, next to the diner. I prefer to have the diner between the coaches & the sleepers because it cuts down on the "sightseers". If you are in the Portland sleeper, you have quite a hike to the diner - good if you like exercise but hard for those with mobility issues who don't want to eat in their rooms.
And speaking of whistles - last summer I was westbound on the EB from Essex to Pasco, so I was in the Portland coach on the lower level. In the early AM, other passengers began to comment on the whistle-blowing - one suggesting that the engineer was trying to "wake up the cows". After listening to their theories for a while, I explained that the whistles were for road crossings & they had not heard the whistles previously because they had been on the end of the EB. It did give me a giggle about newbie trainriders. They were having fun, though - all the way from Minnesota to Portland in coach. Braver souls than I.
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
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Just to be different...only once can I remember the sleepers being in front. We have almost always had to walk forward to the diner. One trp on the Cardinal we were in the last car and the sway was like the game of crack the whip. My blankets kept sliding off the bed all night and I was hanging on for dear life.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Geoff M: Most Superliners have the sleepers at the front. There are a couple of trains, such as the Sunset Ltd and the Empire Builder where there are sleepers at (or near) the back but I think generally the sleepers are on the front.
Geoff M.
My superliner trips on the Coast Starlight had the Sleepers in the rear.
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Coast Starlight may be slightly different due to the Parlour Car. I am also aware that the Starlight isn't always turned in Seattle/LA, so that may be the reason too.
A typical Superliner consist is: Engine(s) Baggage Crew sleeper Paseenger sleeper(s) Diner Lounge Coaches
I'm not saying they're always like that, as there can be many reasons why they're not in that configuration. But it's certainly the way I've seen it most of the time, all over the country.
Geoff M.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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That was indeed the consist (note use of experienced rail person word there) that we recently had on the CS #14(27). Unfortunately we were in the first sleeper and had to walk through two others to get to the dining car. With the rough track that resulted in lots of bruises.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Traditionally, railways spotted the sleepers and other first-class equipment at the end of the trains. I believe one of the reasons this was done was due to passenger safety and convenience. In the days of steam the higher fare-paying passengers, being furthest from the locomotive, had less grit and grime to put up with, and in the event of a derailment it was usually the front of the train that experienced the worst damage. So the lowest fare-paying passengers were the most likely to suffer injury or death in a train wreck.
In Canada Via still places the sleepers on the rear, yet in recent years Via has decided that Via 1 first-class cars should be at the front. So now on day-trains the first-class passenger in Canada suffers the greatest risk in the event of a train wreck.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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THE FEW TIMES I HAVE RODE THE SILVER SERVICE OUR SLEEPERS WERE AT OR NEAR THE FRONT,STILL IT DID NOT INTERFGERE WITH OUR REST,FROM NEW YORK TO CHARLESTON SC.ON THE CAPTIOL LIMITED WHICH HAS SUPERLINER SLEEPERS IT WAS ABOUT MIDWAY FROM CHICAGO TO WASHINGTON &REURN.THE LAKE SHORE BECAUSE F PREVIOUS TUNNEL CLERANCE HAD VIEWLINERS SLEEPERS FROM CHICAGO TO ALBANY, PLATFORM RESTRICTIONS ALSO HURT UNTIL SUCH TIME STATIONS CAN HANDLED THE SUPERLINER COACHES,SLEEPERS I DONT THINK YOU WILL SEE SUPERLINERS ON THE LAKE SHORE
-------------------- I am a active meber of NARP based in Washington D.C. Have been to Washibgtob to meet with mrak officials,and meet with my Congressman and Senators when ever they are avaiable/ Posts: 4 | From: LeesSummit,Mo. | Registered: Oct 2006
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GEORGE,IF YOU KNOW OR HAVE READ DON PHILLIPS,COLUMNIST FOR INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRBUNE AND A EXCLUSIVE REPORTER FOR TRAINS MAGAZINE,OVER THE PAST 2 YEARS HE WAS ASSIGNED TO EUROPE,NOW BACK IN WASHINGTON.HE WROTE OF THE DIFFERENCE IN RAIL SERVICE IN EUROPE VS USA.WHOLE DIFFERENT ANMIAML.EUROPE,PARTICULARLY,GT BRITAN,FRANCE, GERMANY,SPAIN,PORTUGAL HAVE IMPROVED AND ADDED TRACK ON NEWER EQUIPTMENT.NOT IKE OUR BELOVED AMTRAK. RULES FOR EWUROPE ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE FRA IN USA.
-------------------- I am a active meber of NARP based in Washington D.C. Have been to Washibgtob to meet with mrak officials,and meet with my Congressman and Senators when ever they are avaiable/ Posts: 4 | From: LeesSummit,Mo. | Registered: Oct 2006
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Frank, do us all a favor and lay off the all caps.
You have a really scrambled series of concepts in the last post. The FRA is a regualtory agency governing safety, mergers, etc. It has nothing to do with the building of additional tracks or the addition of new equipment other than to define safety related issues in their construction and use.
The thing we need to have to see additonal trains and tracks to run them on is additional funding from the federal and the various state departments of transportation.
The reason you will not see Superliners on the Lakeshore is that the overhead clearances into New York will not permit them. Also, so far as I know all Penn Station platforms are high level, and the Superliners are built for low level platforms. In the overall scheme of things, though rebuilding a couple of platforms would be the easy part.
I do not know what you rode from New York to Charleston SC, but it was not the Capital Limited. That runs from Washington DC to Chicago, and is Superliner equipped.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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George, when I first read Frank's post I had the same reaction as you. But when I reread it I realized what he meant. He lives in Mo. so apparently he went to Chicago, caught the Capital there to DC. Then got either the Palmetto or the silver star or meteor (can't remember which to Chas) Also could you explain why you don't like caps? I know a number of people really object to using them and I have never understood why. For people with vision difficulties it is necessary as I am sure you understand but is there some "rule" that precludes their use?
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Using caps is considered as shouting on the web. It is also harder to read. Oddly enough, nobody chastises those who object to caps - but dare to mention any lack of punctuation or no capital letters at all, and you are the one to get criticised!
I can't say I'm all that impressed with Don Philips. Some of the comments he made about the UK railways were so far off the mark, one wondered whether he'd ever set foot in the country. In fact one article clearly demonstrated he hadn't been for a while as he was talking about companies in the present tense when they'd been defunct for over 10 years!
IIRC the Capitol Ltd uses the low level (in altitude and in stature) platforms in DC, is that correct?
Geoff M.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Geoff, The Capital would have to use the low level platforms, unless youwnat the passengers to be faced with a platform that is about waist high when the door opens. I know all the lower level platforms that have access to the lines south are low level, and some of the west side low number platforms also. These west side platforms are those used by the MARC trains. Whether any of these would be used by the Capital, I do not know. However, these low number tracks were those used pre-Amtrak by the B&O trains, which is the line followed by the Capital, so maybe it does use one of them and then maybe not.
Train Lady, since my only vision difficulty is correctable nearsightedness, I can not say anythign first hand about the validity of what you say. But as my father's eyesight worsened years ago, we got the largest practical text we could find, and he never said anything about lower case being more difficult to read than upper case, so long as it was in the same basic text size. I also agree with Geoff that all caps is more difficult to read because the shape of the words that you are used to seeing is destroyed.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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The size of the type doesn't bother me one way or the other. I find each easy to read. I was just curious as to why people complain about the use of caps. Thanks for the explanations.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Mixed case is standard in print material for readability - check your newspaper (if you still get one of those things). In internet postings, I only use all caps for EMPHASIS since italics & underlining are usually not available. Perhaps emphasis gets translated to shouting - at any rate, some internet users view all caps as rude (as well as being harder to read)
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
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Before Amtrak's Capitol Limited was 'superlinered' in the mid-1990's it departed from the upper level at Washington Union Station. It continued to do so for a short time after the superliner conversion.
I remember catching the Capitol Limited from the upper level in June, 1995. (I had enjoyed lunch that day between trains in Union Station with the woman who would become my wife three years later. THAT'S another story but also part of the reason why my memories of that particular train change are so vivid.)
MARC, at that time, was expanding service and the Capitol Limited moved to the lower level tracks in Union Station shortly thereafter.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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In regards to the arrival and departure of the Capitol Ltd in Washington DC, It did for awhile move downstairs, especially in the "Mail" era to allow for space, both track and platform, to carry the MHC equipment that was regularly transported.
Now that that is done except for the occasional Express Trak car, The train regularly again leaves and arrives, when possible, upstairs from track 16.
The lower level has serious capacity issues at that time of day due to scheduled Amtrak as well as VRE service.
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Judy, you can also use *asterisks* for emphasis, though I think this is less common. Many newsreaders and forums automatically convert words surrounded with asterisks into bold words - though not this one! Another trick is _underline_, but again, this does not work in this forum.
Geoff M.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Making mountains out of mole hills! How about sticking to Amtrak matters!!!
Posts: 287 | From: Palatka, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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