posted
I thought it would be amusing to post what I will be having next month in a real dining car on Via's Canadian. The following I cut and pasted from Via's website and it shows dinner in Silver and Blue (first-class) departing Toronto. So much has been written about Amtrak's new SDS service, I thought that a comparison was in order. If you want to see the entire menu (that changes every day) go to www.viarail.ca
Note: from some idiotic reason this site will not allow the word b-r-e-a-s-t to be printed if I didn't use dashes. So you will know what Turkey ****** means.
Atlantic Fish Chowder or Soup of the Day and Mixed Field Greens with Balsamic Vinaigrette
Prime Rib of Beef Prime AAA Canadian beef, slow roasted to your preference, served with a delicious fresh herb pan jus. Grilled Trout with Lemon and Caper Sauce This cold-water fish, indigenous to Ontario, is first seasoned with lemon pepper, then grilled to perfection and lightly napped with lemon and caper beurre blanc.
Turkey ****** Siciliano A lightly breaded grilled turkey ******, napped with a savory Italian-style tomato ragoût.
To Accompany Your Meal Rosemary and Garlic Roasted Potatoes or Brown and Wild Rice Pilaf and Seasonal Vegetables
Stuffed Portobello Mushroom This king of mushrooms is stuffed full of a savory blend of cheese and vegetables, then roasted to perfection.
Regional Cheese Plate An assortment of Canadian cheeses accompanied by fresh fruit and crackers.
Chef’s Dessert Selection
Coffee - Milk - Selection of Teas
Children’s Menu Available For your dining pleasure our Chefs have added spices and sauces to the menu selections. Should you wish to have a SPICE FREE meal or sauce on the side, please mention this to your server. For special dietary needs, please arrange to meet with our Chef and discuss your needs. All items on this menu can be ordered as a light portion, consisting of mixed field greens and the dinner entrée.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Everything has its price, Mr. Royal, and I don't claim to know much about VIA affairs (last ride Jul 1980 Toronto to Montreal overnight). But I do know that Red White & Blue days are long over, and Long Distance Amtrak is a comparative bargain (I think it unwise to quote specific fares for future travel at a website; in fact I prohibited such during my term as Moderator at another railforum).
It seems to me that the now 50 year old museum pieces are still out on the rails (albeit granted with much TLC in the maintenance department) that I got to ride for some CD$ 65 YVR-YWG during 1965 under the CP's matching (RWB) Faresaver initiative.
The superior scenery of the CP was available for that noted historical rate; apparently that view is now only available on tourist trains @ roundly $1000 per day.
The only "chintz' that CP pulled during the Faresaver program was that their signature Dinner entre's were off limits. The coupon was good only for several casserole dishes. I simply chucked the coupons and had Lamb Chops one evening and a Steak the other. CP's Prime Rib had to wait until I had such on a 'Princess' sailing Victoria to Seattle during 1974. A non-issue on CN; all they had were casseroles.
I realize that meat eating is an "out' nowadays, but it wasn't 40 years ago. For myself, I still haven't gotten that message.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Thanks for posting - The five meals I enjoyed aboard the Canadian from Vancouver to Winnipeg in April 2004 are the most remarkable dining car meals I have ever had.
The top US experiences were a remarkably good steak aboard the City of New Orleans in 2002 and a fried chicken plate aboard the pre-Amtrak 'Southern' Crescent in the mid-1970's.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
The menus change every day, so if one is making the round trip a total of seven different dinner menus can be experienced. (There is an extra dinner eastbound.) The lunch menus and, to a lesser extent, the breakfast menus also change daily.
The fares on the Canadian are not exorbitant in the off-season, which runs until June 1st. VIA does not use "yield management" for its sleeper prices. There are two rates for a one-way Silver & Blue room or berth in the off-peak season: five days (or more) advance purchase or fewer than five days in advance. A significant saving can be realised by using a North American Rail Pass or a Canrailpass.
Of course I don't doubt people's experiences with the CPR restricting menu choices on their "all inclusive plan." But I guess I travelled at the right time because on my several trips in the late 1960s and early 1970s the only restriction was on the sirloin steak. I could have had prime rib on every trip.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I agree, David, I had learned elsewhere that CP "liberalized" the menu choices later in the program.
I for one never understood why CP felt compelled to match CN's "go for broke' giveaway fares. CP had the equipment, they had the route - population and scenery, they had the tradition (one could almost hear the Blake/Parry hymm "Jerusalem' being performed - that was the one in "Chariots of Fire" at Abrahams' funeral) - you were a subject of the Empire for your journey!!!
CN latter day service during RWB simply struck me as 'gimmicky'. It just seemed like all they could or would do is put contemporary interiors in even their heavyweight and hand me down equipment.
I did have "pre-initiative' rides on the CN; one was Montreal-Kapitachuan Club behind steam during 1956. Even their lightweight equipment that became the VIA "smooth side' fleet was staid and dowdy. When compared with The Canadian, if they ever got a revenue passenger between competitive on line cities e.g. Vancouver or Winnipeg , I'd be amazed.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I took the Canadien this past March from Toronto to Vancouver. With an upper berth and traveling off season the price wasn't outrageous, but still pricy and Im glad I made the trip.
The food was the best I ever had on a train. Different menus every day, fine china, champagne on leaving Toronto,Winnipeg and Jasper, cookies,snacks,fruit,pastries and beverages in the lounge or the park car. An incredible experience. Only the Empire Builder comes close to what the Canadien offers and the price is considerably cheaper.
It's a shame first class service has deteriorated on Amtrak.
Posts: 176 | From: Bloomsburg Pa | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
We sat with an interesting couple from Regina, Saskatchewan on a recent Empire Builder trip. The closest VIA stop for them was Saskatoon. Minot, ND was about the same distance for them but they much preferred it because of the much cheaper fares on Amtrak (they were in a bedroom).
I guess as Southwest Airlines proved, talk about deluxe service all you want but price is a priority for most people.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Naturally if all the folks you met want is a ride, especially considering that wheat fields look the same whether North or South of the 49th, Canadian's tri weekly frequency and its "somnambulist hour' passing through Saskatoon are "uh, not exactly' plusses.
#1 departs Sask 230A #2 145A
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
There is one part of the CNR mainline that is more scenic than the southerly CPR route: eastern Saskatchewan, especially the Qu'appelle valley. What a difference 150 miles makes. Unfortunately this can be enjoyed only in the peak summer months on the westbound train, but eastbound it can be seen even in winter. The most scenic part is near Cutarm, about 45 miles east of Melville.
posted
David - loved that trestle in the postcard. My wife and I are considering a reprise of our much earlier camping trips next summer - creaky bones permiiting. We will head to Colorado via a northerly route and then down through Montana/Wyoming. We have heard good things about the provincial parks in Canada - any recommendations along your southern border?
Sorry this is off topic
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by David: There is one part of the CNR mainline that is more scenic than the southerly CPR route: eastern Saskatchewan, especially the Qu'appelle valley.
Well, now I know from where CN got the name of one of the HW lounge cars they did over as part of the RWB initiative.
It sure seemed strange to note a car with ice air conditioning yet having an "oh so sixties' false ceiling and otherwise a "Doctor's office motiff' than that of a railroad car built during the 20's.
Such was in consist of #5 "Panorama" that I rode Sask-Vancouver during June 1965. The intent was to ride Winnipeg-Vancouver, but GN's Winnipeg Ltd was late and hence a misconnect. I arranged a YWG-YXE "catch up flight" on an Air Canada Vickers Viscount - if there ever was a commercial aircraft designed for "flightseeing', that was it. During the flight, I doubt if it ever was higher than FL14, but I still missed viewing this scenery.
Darn, it took me 40 years to find out, but I guess I did miss something after all.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
i thought about taking the canadian, but VIA's outrageous prices have caused me to reconsider. The canadian may be a great train, but Amtrak provides better value, in my opinion.
Posts: 416 | From: St. Albans, Vermont | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I know this is not an exact comparison, but during Via's off season (currently in effect) the cheapest sleeping car accommodation, the upper berth, is cheaper than Amtrak's cheapest roomette. For three days and nights Toronto to Vancouver the upper berth is $841.64 (Canadian). while for three days and nights the roomette on the Texas Eagle Chicago to Los Angeles was $835 (U.S). Given the cheaper Canadian dollar, you would be paying more on the Eagle for three days nights with your meals included. I know roomettes and bedrooms on The Canadian are much more expensive, but if you are willing to "rough it" in an upper berth The Canadian is really a bargain.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
If I was going to "rough it" i would "rough it" in coach. I cannot afford sleepers. I only make $30,000 per year.
ive taken plenty of amtrak cross country trips in coach.
Plus when I am on the train i dont sleep much. i like to spend my time in the lounge car, diner, or just looking out the window. those things cost the same for coach and sleeping car passengers.
Posts: 416 | From: St. Albans, Vermont | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Well, Mr. Montana Jim, I make $0 - I'm retired. But I guarantee you you won't see the likes of me overnight in a Coach.
If one wants to have an "eat your heart out moment", fish out a CN timetable from the Rouge Blanc Bleu initiative years. The Oct 26, 1969 issue shows Blanc travel Saskatoon to Vancouver in a Roomette at CD$46. I think they were starting to "loose heart' by then (Expo was the Zenith) so possibly when I took my 1965 journey, the fare was even less.
Possibly someone with a 'deflator' table could translate that to today's$$$
Lastly Jim, I once knew a fellow (single; lived with parents in the Boston area but had a good "management" job with a municipal agency) who thought nothing of traveling to Mexico and riding about down there, overnight included, in Segunda!!! OUCH!!!
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Ive actually taken the bus cross country before. Also, when i lived in China, i often sat in hard seat class (actually the seat is soft, but does not recline) when taking the train for distances of less than 12 hours.
When you consider trips like that, Amtraks plenty of legroom, reclining seats in coach seem like first class!
Posts: 416 | From: St. Albans, Vermont | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
At first, that term had same meaning to me as well, Mr. Slotkin and Miss Vicki - especially being a Viet Nam veteran (and proud I was called to serve) returning to campus during 1969.
But the SDS term seems to have stuck at the forums as Amtrak calls the product Simplified Dining Service. Diner Lite was simply a creation of the railfan community.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by HopefulRailUser: Are the sixties coming back to haunt you Ira?
Yup. Flashbacks to a variety of things, indeed. I have fun sometimes comparing terminology from my 60s .. um .. "activities" with today's users in my treatment groups. Those neuro-transmitter and synapse patterns die hard sometimes, especially around the political and social issues I/we felt so strongly about.
Makes me think of the Ray Brdabury story in Dandelion Wine - about the trolley line about to be closed, and the conductor taking it off the main line and down a long unused line to a field of memories. I'll have to look in my copy for the name of the story, when I get home.
Anyone for a new thread - stories/novels about trains?
Ira
Posts: 300 | From: Denver, CO USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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But I guarantee you you won't see the likes of me overnight in a Coach. 
