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No question whatever, the CB&Q route of the Amtrak California Zephyr avoids any and all Iowa on-line communities that could generate traffic. With $4/ga coming soon to a gas pump near you, some students families may start thinking twice about "outfitting" JR with an auto in which to head off to big U.
The Rock Island serves more population centers than any E-W route in Iowa. Even the one major cn line traffic source not served, Cedar Rapids, could be served by means of an "airport van" transfer service (maybe a 48 passenger intercity bus, if things go right).
The RI is not inundated with freight traffic, and they would likely consider any performance payments made by the service's sponsors as "pure profit".
But as any of us around here who have occasion to see the Rock Island through Iowa "up close and personal" know that work, much work, must be done before the line can accept a passenger train and operate such at a drive time competitive schedule.
I would be inclined to think the $20M "thrown about" by the initiators is low, but then Engineering is one area of the railroad industry in which I cannot claim any first hand exposure to.
Here is additional material regarding the proposed routing accross Illinois. It appears option "A" is to use the RI to where the CB&Q physically X's such at Wyanett, but presently no physical interchange exists.
Option "B" is to use the RI all the way into Chicago. For that, I'm not coimpletely clear where the interchange to the PRR would be to access CUS.
Finally, I'll give the young Univ of Iowa reporter a pass on this one. The Rock Island Rocket accross Iowa was gone before A-Day (1970 as i recall). When RI declined to join Amtrak, the existing service within Illinois continued until, I think, about 1975.
In any case, to the reporter, this was all before she was born; hence ancient history. I shall not "knock" University newspapers, even if I, as a Viet Nam Veteran returning to campus, found their editorial positions "hard to take'. Lest we forget, I doubt if too many movie buffs can fault the reportage of Roger Ebert - he started out at the Daily Illini during "my day".
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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mr. Norman: Weren't the signals removed from the CRIP main after their liquidation? If that is the case, then unless they want to run 59 mph, it will take a LOT more than $20 million for signals, alone.
I had seen somewhere that the Rock had gotten most of the line into 136 lb CWR before they folded, but not sure of that. Given the traffic volume since then, this rail should have a lot of life left if not loaded up with internal defects due to overstressing on bad ties. Still, a major tie and surfacing, which is almost certainly needed, can eat a lot of money in a hurry. $100,000 to $200,000 per mile?
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Harris, friends of mine from Amana, who are involved in the advocacy group, made the comment to me today that $20M is mighty slim pickins'; $50M is more likely the number.
But come on, let's give the aspiring young journalist a break. At least she is pursuing a course of study that will likely land her a job. Who knows, maybe she will hire on with Amtrak Media Relations upon graduation.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Mr. Harris, friends of mine from Amana, who are involved in the advocacy group, made the comment to me today that $20M is mighty slim pickins'; $50M is more likely the number.
But come on, let's give the aspiring young journalist a break. At least she is pursuing a course of study that will likely land her a job. Who knows, maybe she will hire on with Amtrak Media Relations upon graduation.
She could go to work explaining the significance of National Train Day!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but isn't some of the ex-CRI&P currently not even qualfied for 20MPH running?
Were there not into the 1970s 4 routes across Iowa?
CB&Q RI CMStP&P C&NW
We've already disqualified the BNSF (former CB&Q) for bypassing population centers.
I know the C&NW exists as the UP, but what's its condition? Of course, the issue of UP accepting another Amtrak service is always slightly exciting.
Mr Norman, I know out west they ripped up the Milwaukee, but what about across Iowa to Council Bluffs?
Disclaimer: Also taken up out in Flyover Country were the Missouri Pacific westward from Kansas City and portions of the M-K-T within Missoui.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Into the 1970s, there was also the ex-CGW, and the IC.
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by PullmanCo: Mr Norman, I know out west they ripped up the Milwaukee, but what about across Iowa to Council Bluffs?
"Gone, Gone, Gone, crying won't bring 'er back".
The MILW also dodged the population centers, but it did indeed come closer to them than does the Q.
MILW stations Marion was some five miles North of Cedar Rapids and served by a municipal bus route ("infamous" National City once upon a time). Perry was some ten miles North of Des Moines.
Regarding the C&NW x-Iowa, well that's the Overland route. UP is "pouring $$$" to catch up on the years of needed capacity improvements. Presently, they are replacing the Kate Shelly Bridge over the Des Moines River with a double track span (the present bridge, which will be come part of a nature trail, is double tracked but has weight restrictions precluding simultaneous passage of two freights). UP has further "double tracked' the span accross the Cedar River; this was likely the most severe 'bottleneck' anywhere on the C&NW/Overland Route. Still to be addressed is the X ing of Ol' Man River at Clinton; again double track but weight restrictions.
But volks, I don't think UP is making these improvements with the intent of hosting any agency's passenger trains. The Overland Route, as well as the entire "traditional UP", is "passenger free" from Elburn IL to WESO, NV - and I'm certain the powers that be have every intention of keeping it that way.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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A couple of clarifications from an Iowa boy- 41 miles from Des Moines to Perry, not 10. They are not replacing the Kate Shelly Bridge but adding another one to increase capacity. Also, the current bridge was reinforced a few years ago to allow a return to having two trains run over it at once, but there still is a speed restriction.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Mar 2008
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And the "old" Kate Shelly Bridge will remain in service after the new one opens- not become a nature trail. Neat link to pictures of new bridge under construction: http://gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=4124Posts: 7 | Registered: Mar 2008
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PullmanCo: [QB] Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but isn't some of the ex-CRI&P currently not even qualfied for 20MPH running?
Other than yard limits and various speed restrictions, the entire line across IA is good for 40 MPH freight. Track structure will require some upgrades, but lack of signals is more of an issue. Lots of new ties, ballast, even new welded rail has gone in over the past few years. All will go great with the 12 brand new GE Locomotives IAIS has coming this year.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Thanks for "Department of Corrections' Mr. Coachseats. Regarding Des Moines, likely I got Clive and Perry confused.
Regarding Kate Shelly, to abandon the current span seemed a bit wasteful, but be such as it may, the improvements are simply testameant to the extent UP believes there will be continued demand for railroad transportation so long as any of us are around in this life.
I still think that double tracking the Cedar River bridge eliminated the worst bottleneck on the Overland Route, and I would be interested to learn what weight restrictions are in place regarding the Mississippi River X-ing @ Clinton.
But again, I must reiterate that these investor staked improvements are not being made with the intent of hosting anybody's passenger train.
Regarding the Rock Island IAIS, it seems to be a going concern, but it must be noted that they lost their largest on-line industry last year, namely Maytag in Newton. This household appliance manufacturer, now bought up by Whirlpool (still has some US manufacturing; who knows for how long), had a strong policy to use rail for both inbound raw materials and outbound finished goods. The Central Iowa location precluded being short hauled - at least with respect to East-West traffic.
The other Iowa Whirlpool/Maytag/Amana facility @ Middle Amana has not used railroad transportation in many a year, and 'back in my day' with the MILW, it was an important traffic source, frequently giving us line hauls to the West Coast. Rail access still exists, and a new RI-MILW physical interchange has been built at Yocum near South Amana.
But in so far as moving household appliances, such has been for naught, and the Big Rigs roll through the Amana Colonies, much to the dismay of the "locals" (most of whom need no longer be concerned with earning the Daily Bread) - especially RAILFAN locals.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ex-C&NW Mississippi River bridge at Clinton, Iowa: per Dec. 9, 2001 ETT: No weight restriction. 20 mph speed limit, two main tracks, no other operating restrictions shown. (Load limit on line: 71,500 lb/axle.)
As for the current Kate Shelly Bridge: per Dec. 14, 2003 ETT: Location milepost 207.6. No weight restriction. 25 mph speed limit, dragging equipment detectors a few miles away each side for protection. In addition to the 25 mph speed limit on the bridge itself, there is a 50 mph restriction on each side, extending from mp 205.7 to 208.3. One writeup said that as part of the realignment these would be eliminated so that the speed would be 70 mph throughout.
Don't know where the single track section is that you are talking about, but then I am weak on Iowa geography. The ex-C&NW is two main tracks all the way from Chicago to the point where the line to Fremont and the line to Omaha split. Then there is some single track on both routes.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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From Marriott Courtyard Roswell GA--(sorry, not masochistic enough to consider a CHI-30-WAS-19-ATL routing to get down here).
Mr. Harris, until the UP addressed such, the bridge over the Cedar River (Beverly) was a single track span causing inefficient handling of traffic.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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