Also today I saw an article that said VRE had reached agreement with CSX to provide the necessary time slots for this train and one to Richmond. No mention of NS.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Mr. Palmland, I would presume the SAL/N&W physical connection at Petersburg built at Amtrak's expense for the 1977 inauguration of The Hilltopper remains in place.
Neither Amtrak train operated over the N&W, The Mountaineer or The Hilltopper set the world on fire with their public acceptance; has there been any change in the demographics to make this proposed rendition any different?
Oh well, at least this one will be paid for at Local level.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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GBN - While changes at Petersburg may happen with Southeast HSR, this one is pretty straight forward. Just get on NS at Alexandria and run that great Southern mainline to Lynchburg.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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The funding consists of $17.2 million that will, for the next three years, operate two daily Amtrak trains. One will serve the Lynchburg-to-Washington route, with stops in Charlottesville and Culpeper. The other train will serve a Richmond-to-Washington route
Mr. Palmland, I was addressing the latter routing.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Looks like the article is talking about two separate trains with neither needing to utilize the connection built for the erstwhile Hilltopper in Petersburg.
The Hilltopper suffered from an incredibly bad routing to begin with and the Mountaineer established for Amtrak that the market to Hampton Roads was from the northeast rather than from the midwest.
As for a second frequency Lynchburg-DC, hooray. Even Southern operated three roundtrips daily to Lynchburg as late as 1975.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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OK Mr. Presley, I can see the interpretation that one train Lynchburg-Wash via the SRY AND another State sponsored Richmond-Wash via the RF&P is being addressed. However, the reporter in his wisdom lead me to believe that two trains, one via the SRY and one N&W-Pbg-SAL-Rich-RF&P was the case.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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But of course it was an internet article from a TV station to begin with......it is often difficult to decipher such articles.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Actually, Mr. Presley, it's a newspaper, but then a small market newspaper.
I'll wager, the reporter is a "Cub", and for all we know an intern Randolph College student.
Be assured, the Daily Illini offered better journalism (likely most famous alum of such is my contemporary Roger Ebert).
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Small Market Newspaper - That's what I get for just scanning it enough to get the gist and to recognize that I'll have to seek other sources for the 'complete' story beyond "Trains R Good".
You know, at one point the rail advocates in Virginia were talking about returning passenger trains to Roanoke and Bristol. I wonder if going to Lynchburg down the original Southern route is viewed as a precursor of extending on down the N&W?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: You know, at one point the rail advocates in Virginia were talking about returning passenger trains to Roanoke and Bristol. I wonder if going to Lynchburg down the original Southern route is viewed as a precursor of extending on down the N&W?
Last report from VaDOT gave a very low projected passenger loading. So far as I know the idea was dropped after that point. Without major curve adjustments, the run time is simply too slow to attract much ridership.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I do not recall, one way of the other, to what extent Hugh Hefner was active with the Daily Illini, or for that matter if he was a graduate of the College of Journalism.
"Hef" is of course a graduate of University of Illinois.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Mr Norman, Randolph College is struggling with its recent name change from Randolph-Macon Women's College. One of the many downside issues in colleges becoming co-ed since there was that other RMC in Ashland. They did have very nice (and smart) young ladies back 'in the day'.
Perhaps, David, with two pro-rail states involved (and the funding sources to actually do something) the extension of the second Lynchburg train might be to Greensboro rather than Bristol. It will be interesting to see what schedule is developed. Hopefully the Crescent schedule will change some so the two trains don't follow each other's block signals.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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On another note (pun intended), whenever I hear all this talk about trains going to and from Lynchburg Virginia, I think of that great song "The Wreck of the 97." (I also think of that song when on the Silver Meteor.)
They gave him his orders in Lynchburg, Virginia. . . .
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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I wonder if his orders didn't actually come from Monroe, Virginia which was the Southern Division points for years and years?
Monroe was about 7 miles north of Lynchburg and I don't believe there is anything at all there anymore. All the railroad buildings have been leveled.
Nowadays the orders are handed up in Lynchburg....well,,,,do they still hand up paper copies of orders anymore?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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It IS Monroe, David; I am mixed up as usual. THe line is "They gave him his orders in Monroe Virginia." And while I'm thinking they mentioned Lynchburg, but now I am thinking maybe it was DANVILLE they mentioned . . .
I listen to this song on almost every trip, you would think I could remember the lyrics. Oh well, I need some more gingko, eh? I will go find the lyrics on line and post them here soon. . .
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Well, I'm exonerated, in that they do mention Lynchburg AND Danville. Here is one version of the lyrics. I believe this song must be public domain because it's all over the Net so I think OK to post. It is not a true folk song, however, but was written in the late 19C (at least the lyrics; one web site says the tune is "The Ship That Never Returned"; the tune is used again, of course, by the Kingston Trio in "M.T.A." so I think the tune is public domain for sure); in fact, we may have had a strand about this song a while back . . . or maybe I saw it someplace else, but there is big debate about the use of air brake being anachronistic in the song, which is based on a true incident that you can read about here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck_of_the_Old_'97 (or someplace better perhaps, as Mr Kisor notes the untrustiworthiness of wikipedia!)
Here is one version, similar to the one I have on my RR CD by Patrick Sky (there are other versions including one that mentions a place called Lima):
THE WRECK OF OLD 97
Well, they gave him his orders in Monroe, Virginia, Sayin', "Steve, you're way behind time. This is not 38, it is Old 97, You must put her into Spencer on time."
Well, the engineer he said to his black, greasy fireman, "Shovel on a little more coal, And when we cross that White Oak Mountain, You can watch Old 97 roll."
It's a mighty hard road from Lynchburg to Danville, A road with a three-mile grade; It was on that grade that he lost his airbrake, You can see what a jump she made.
He was goin' down the grade making 90 miles an hour, When his whistle broke into a scream. He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle, He was scalded to death by the steam.
Now all you ladies, you must take warning, From this story a lesson learn, Never speak harsh words to your true lovin' husband, He may leave you and never return.
BTW, speaking of all the ladies taking warning, maybe fans of the super high-speed rail need to take warning too!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Here is Patrick Sky's version, which I like even more, as it has 2 more stanzas you don't often hear:
THE WRECK OF THE 97
As I stood on the mountain one cold frosty morning Just watching the smoke from below, It was twirling from an old lonesome smokestack Way down on the Southern road.
Well, he picked up his orders in Monroe, Virginia, Saying Steve, you're way behind time. This is not 38 but it's old 97; Gonna put her into Spencer on time.
Then he turned and he said to his black greasy fireman, "Shovel in a little more coal, And when reach that White Oak Mountain You can watch old 97 roll."
Now it's a mighty rough road from Lynchburg to Danville, And she's lying on a three-mile grade. It was on that stretch that he lost his airbrakes— You can see what a jump he made.
He was coming down that grade making 90 miles an hour When his whistle broke into a scream, And they found him in the wreck with his hand on the throttle; He was scalded to death by the steam.
Well, the news it was a-traveling o'er the telegraph wires; This is what it said: Said, "That brave engineer from Monroe, Virginia, Is a-lying in that graveyard dead."
So I'm telling you, my fair ladies, take warning From this time on and learn: Never speak harsh words to your true loving husband; He may leave you and never return.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Absolutely exonerated.........Monroe was only a few miles from Lynchburg and now that the railroad yard and all service facilities there are gone, what crew change and order business is done there now happens in Lynchburg.
I guess I'm just amazed at how much nothing exists now where Monroe was.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Bill, I've always wondered what exactly it means that it was not 37? Were 37 and 38 trains that were often late into Spencer and so not expected to be get in there on time, unlike what was expected of Old 97? OR were they faster trains that never had the problem of getting into Spencer on time, the way Old 97 did?
Also, I have heard some versions that use a different train number. I believe Woody Guthrie's does (he also screwed up a stanza and redid in my version, very odd).
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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37 and 38 were the numbers of the Crescent Limited, the premier train on the line. All pullman into the early 1960's.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Sojourner, I suspect that 37-38, being premier trains as George Harris noted, would usually be on time.I am not sure what the song is trying to say to us about punctuality, possiby nothing?
Briefly there has an evolution of train name changes through the years. The train known today as the Crescent has much more in common with the train formerly known as the Southerner (not to be confused with the artist formerly known as Prince).
Again, just briefly,the original Crescent Limited went from New York to Atlanta then Montgomery, Mobile and New Orleans.It had a one night out schedule southbound and two nights northbound.All pullman for years as George noted.
As you know, today's Crescent goes NYC, ATL Birmingham,Meridian, New Orleans and is one night out in both directions.That is like the original Southerner.
The Crescent Limited began late 20's. The Southerner, originally an all coach streamliner, began about 1941.
In 1949-50 the Crescent dropped the name Limited and was re equipped as a streamliner.The Crescent added coaches but only from ATL to NOL at first.And the Southerner got pullmans but only from NYC to ATL and BIrmingham.
About 1970 or so the Crescent and Southerner were kind of merged into one train with the strong points of each of the former. The fsster northbound schedule. The Southerner route rather than the Crescent route since the Piedmont limited still ran from ATL to NOL via Montgomery and Mobile.For the first time, so far as I knew, there were both through coaches and through pullmans all the way from NYC to NOL on the same one train.
This is when it was named the Southern Crescent. That name was meant, per their published ads, to retain the memory of each former train. The word "Southern" was not meant to be like a posessive name of the railroad but rather a remembrance of the old Southerner name. Nobody understood it that way.
When Amtrak took over they dropped the name "Southern" and that----more or less, no telling what I have left out----is roughly how yesterday's Southerner became today's Crescent.
My mother used to sing "The wreck of old 97" frequently. Such a thrill when I took her on her one and only trip to NYC. I got to tell her we were going through Old 97 territoy. Mother was in the early sages of Parkinsons but still able to handle such a trip. Oh yes, years before that, my sister went to school for one year at Averitt College in Danville so mother sang the song again.
Mother has been signing that and "On the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe" all over Heaven for some time now.
-------------------- bill haithcoat Posts: 45 | From: atlanta, ga | Registered: Jan 2008
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Interesting story Bill. Should Amtrak reschedule the Crescent for better times in New Orleans, Atlanta (and maybe portion of the Carolinas) while keeping out of the way of the Lynchburg Flyer? I believe at one time it was 2 nights out of New Orleans NB - which would allow same day connection with CONO and Sunset.
Maybe not as well known, but the Seldom Scene version of the 'Pan American'- 'She's the beauty of the southland, listen to that whistle scream, it's the Pan American on her way to New Orleans' ranks near the top for me, for sentimental reasons. Don't make'em like they used to.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Yes, it used to be two nights out northbound. Actually that is tucked into a couple of references in my longish post above.
For years it left NOL at 11 p.m., then in more recent years it wss put back to 9 p.m. merging in fact with the Pan American, the very train you mentioned.
Yep, the Pan American was a neat train and with a neat history also. In fact I believe way way before my time it had actually been an all pullman luxuryliner like the Crescent Limited, though it got coaches, etc sooner.
For years Nashville radio station WSB(I think those were the numbers_ recorded its whistle as the southbound went by apparently on time nearly every day.
-------------------- bill haithcoat Posts: 45 | From: atlanta, ga | Registered: Jan 2008
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I remember learning how the Crescent evolved having become curious after seeing pictures of the northbound Crescent taken during the afternoon at Greenville, SC. The northbound Southerner (and now Crecent) would never have appeared northbound at Greenville, SC during the daytime.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Thank you all so much for the additional info; and Mr. Haithcoat, it is wonderful to think of you mom up in heaven singing those songs. Which lyrics does she use for Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe--all the way to Californ-i-a? or all the way from Philadel-phi-a? I have heard both ways. . . .
Palmland, do you know which Seldom Scene album "Pan American" is on? I really like them and have many of their CDs, but I don't remember that song. My very favorite Seldom Scene song is their version of "Rider," but I very much like the way they do "City of New Orleans" too. . . . which (probably by Arlo Guthrie) is my very favorite train song. (I also have it by Judy Collins, Willie Nelson, Steve Goodman who wrote it, and probably others too. . . . ) I will be taking the CONO for the first time very soon, and I hope I am not thrown off the train, since I am likely to sing the song from Chicago all the way to New Orleans (except for the time in Jackson, when I will probably sing the Johnny Cash/June Carter Cash song, even though that could well be about a different Jackson (Jackson, TN).
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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sojourner, it happens that I saw Arlo Guthrie in concert at Mt. Dora, FL last night and, yes, he did "City of New Orleans." He also related to the audience the always humorous story about how he was approached by Steve Goodman in a little night spot in Chicago in 1970 with the song that gave him his only "hit" (if you don't count "Alice's Restaurant"). Arlo also related tales about his tour on the CONO back after Katrina hit, just to keep this a little on-topic.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Ms. Sojourner -- I believe the Johnny Cash/June Carter song called "Jackson" was in fact about Jackson, Tennessee.
Have you seen the movie "Walk the Line" about Johnny Cash? -- it's a pretty good movie about his early years (before he married June)-- we bought the DVD after the movie came out a couple years ago.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sojourner - 'Pan American' is on the Seldom Scene album, 'Old Train'. Great album with, as you might expect, lots of train songs.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Thank you all so much for the additional info; and Mr. Haithcoat, it is wonderful to think of you mom up in heaven singing those songs. Which lyrics does she use for Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe--all the way to Californ-i-a? or all the way from Philadel-phi-a? I have heard both ways
Ms. Sojourner, even if your music is not mine, I certainly respect your knowledge of such and that artistic expressions can only be considered as subjective.
I presume it is noted that the lyrics of Johnny Mercer song you address can rhyme perfectly well noting the new corporate parent of the AT&SF lines:
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RRRich, I loved Walked the Line and bought the DVD too. Also love Johnny Cash's music. (Though that's no guarantee of my liking these biopicks of musicians--I hated the Ray Charles film, but I love his music--in fact, I just didn't want to know all that about a musician I like! And I thought the Bobby Darin one was dim, and the Edith Piaf simply crazy.)
Palmland, I HAVE Old Train! In fact, I even have "Pan American" downloaded onto my computer--I just did it long ago and forgot about it. (I should have looked first instead of asking!!!) I remember when I got it,though, being disappointed there weren't more train songs. I did put "Old Train" (the title song) on one of my train song CDs that I take on trips (I have 3), but I will have to get "Pan American" on one of them too. I see it is a Hank Williams song. BTW I also have a song called "Pan American Boogie"--I have versions by Robin & Linda Williams and by Kate MacKenzie; but there might be better ones.
But do you know the "Texas Eagle" song by Steve Earle on the recording he made with the bluegrass group the Del McCoury Band? That's another of my big favorite train songs, and it even mentioned Amtrak (in a negative light--probably, Smitty, you would like it!). It was written when there were still trains in Mexico, though.
Bill H, am not sure what Johnny Rockets jukebox type thing is. There are large gaps in my knowledge, I'm afraid (some of which are caused because I forget things I used to know).
Re Arlo Guthrie, he doesn't live so very far from here, or didn't. I believe Alice's Restaurant was in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, in the Berkshires (near where the LSL goes from Boston to Albany). Long time ago. I have friends in NYC who were extras in the trailer made for the movie (back in the 60s; good movie in its day but would likely be very dated now). I remember when Arlo took the train down post-Katrina; he was interviewed on TV news (probably CNN) and said it was the first time he was taking the City of New Orleans. Like me upcoming, he detoured to Chicago to take it--he could have gone down to NYC and caught the Crescent for 1 less night on the train, but of course he had to take the CONO!!! He had his guitar on the train and seemed to be in coach (though maybe he had a sleeper too).
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sojourner,there are gaps in my memory also.Johnny Rockets is the name of a 50's drive in style restaurant featuring hamburgers, hot dogs,etc.
It has the little coin box music things on the counter in front of you. You drop a nickel in and play a song. Largely rock 'n roll which began in earnest when I was in junior high.My sister, who once lived in Memphis, actually double dated with Elvis Presley durng that time. Not to be confused with David Pressley of this forum.
Now the term jukebox, so far as I know, refers to a large instrument in the corner whch every can access. What the little small one in front of each customer is called, I do not know.
-------------------- bill haithcoat Posts: 45 | From: atlanta, ga | Registered: Jan 2008
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Aha! I know just the thing you mean, Bill H, even if I'm not really familiar with the diners (I've probably seen them but never been in one, too busy looking for BBQ, Indian food, et al). How cool your sister once dated Elvis P--whom of course I would not confuse with our David Pressley, since as we know he is "NOT Elvis."
Mr Norman, I'm not sure why you think our tastes in music are different--truth is, I have very omnivorous taste in music and may well like whatever you like too (unless your taste runs to heavy metal and rap, which I don't much care for; but somehow I suspect those are not your favorites either). But thank you so much for the term remote selectors, I had no idea what it was but it's a good term to know. In exchange, I will tell you something I know: the term juke box is of African (or Gullah, probably originally African) origin and is related to a term for a bordello, I believe.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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sojourner, Arlo still lives up there and has his Guthrie Center operating out of the old church where Alice (you remember Alice-from Alice's Restaurant!) and Ray used to live in Great Barrington. He bought that church a few years back; if not too far from you, I recommend a visit. He's doing all kinds of proactive community things out of the church.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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I lived in Memphis briefly 25 years ago and, upon meeting people, was frequently asked if I were any relation to 'that other Presley boy'.
While we would not be gifted with the internet for another decade or so at that time, I am certain that the seeds for my screen name were sown at that time. I'll add that 'notelvis2' serves as my email address!
Musically I'm laughing at the notion of GBN listening to Rap!
I'll save my own eclectic musical tastes for another time.....lest this post get too long.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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We almost didn't get the funding for the DC/Lbg route. The representative from the Bristol Va area tried to block it if there wasn't enough funding to continue the route to Roanoke and Bristol.
Posts: 68 | From: Lynchburg, Virginia USA | Registered: Feb 2003
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Mr. Southern, that is pretty bold to try to get us back on topic.
Do you have any idea what schedule VA DOT has in mind and why they feel the need for a schedule very close to the Crescent?
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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