posted
Mike, since I'm familiar with the area, I can think of a few issues myself, But since you reside in Marion County (and I'm just a snowbird), I shall defer and ask you share such with the forum.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
The local rag, the Ocala Star-Banner, has been opposed to this legislation from the outset, and our Republican State Senator, Charles Dean, voted against it.
It brings nothing to the table for Ocala and Marion County except construction of a grade-crossing elimination or two (not enough). The legislation mostly benefits "mouseland", the I-4 corridor, the Tampa area, Tri-Rail in S. Florida, and CSX. We can look forward up here to lots more freight traffic coming through town on the CSX "S" line, tying up traffic to the consternation of the many "nimbys" around here.
Also, the final nail in the coffin for ever seeing Amtrak rail service (not rubber on pavement) through Ocala/Wildwood (the Villages).
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Completely off-topic, except for the mouseland reference - my current home town of Swindon (UK) has very recently been twinned with the Magic Kingdom... why, I have no idea. About the only thing magic about Swindon is the so-called Magic Roundabout - and that's nothing to do with a children's TV series.
Having recently visited "mouseland" again (other attractions are available), there are areas that could do with better public transport. I realise that this proposal doesn't really cover that, but a Las Vegas-style transit system for the centralised attractions has to be a winner, given the parking fees and traffic jams, particularly at "chucking out" time.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I do hope Sun Rail has the good sense to keep the station for them and Amtrak in that wonderful location in downtown Winter Park. I had heard some talk that they were looking at another location.
How close will this get to Disney? If only the CSX line between Orlando and Kissimmee, this won't help all the Mickey visitors. I am sure Disney would like to see a light rail connection and if anybody could do it, they have the wherewithal.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
My understanding is that the entire Sun Rail operation will be conducted over existing CSX trackage between Deland and Poinciana. Not sure about plans involving station sitings, but would expect that the "abandoned" Sanford station would be resurrected in some form along with some other "stops" that presently do not exist. It will, of course, be many years before any trains roll (if ever), so I'm sure everything's still in the planning stages right now, and the "good old boys" in local Florida politics will now come out of the woodwork (like Tiger's paramours) to stake their claims.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm so glad they are starting this. Disney would probably love service, and they have the money to put one in, they just won't. I hope Amtrak will comeback to the "S" line, after all I live on it just in a different state
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Part of the "deal" with CSX requires them to move their freight operation entirely from the "A" line to the "S" line, at least here in Florida, hence a projected doubling of freight traffic through Ocala.
No hope for Amtrak to ever return to the "S" line (at least down here) because of that. Not sure how it might affect usage of that line further north.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Most of the business that Sun Rail will handle to Disneyland and other nearby parks will be that of staff, as I continue to ask how many visitors come to Florida, outside of those coming to visit relatives, do so without an auto be it owned or rented?
Possibly some 'doing Disney on the cheap' staying in Kissimmee, or otherwise land of "Econotels' that offer some kind of courtesy shuttle to the park, might use SunRail from its proposed KMCO station to Kissimmee and otherwise rely on hotel shuttles, but I do think such visitors will be few and far between, i.e. about the same that take Amtrak down from the Northeast.
However, if these visitors desired to take in Downtown Orlando Church Street entertainment district, Sun Rail could prove quite convenient - presuming they offer evening frequencies.
Finally, in deference to those who will ask "why not all the way to Tampa?", I again remind the forum that under existing Florida law that in order for State funding to flow, each county must assent to the plan by imposing an excise tax dedicated to funding the service. In South Florida, Tri-Rail has not been able to offer service to fast growing communities such as Jupiter, Jensen Beach, and Stuart, or even Indiantown simply because Martin County will not impose the required dedicated excise tax. For the moment, be thankful back in Central Florida, the voters within two counties - Orange and Osceola - have chosen to "pony up'
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Most of the business that Sun Rail will handle to Disneyland and other nearby parks will be that of staff, as I continue to ask how many visitors come to Florida, outside of those coming to visit relatives, do so without an auto be it owned or rented?
You seem to be of the mentality that because people use cars, they won't use public transport. Wrong. There is NO REALISTIC ALTERNATIVE to using a car, hence why so many are driven or rented down there. Back in my student days I arrived on Amtrak and attempted to use public transport to visit various places of interest. Waste of time. If there were buses then they were few and far between, and usually involved more than one bus, often not going anywhere near where you wanted to go. For families it's definitely not a friendly situation.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: However, if these visitors desired to take in Downtown Orlando Church Street entertainment district, Sun Rail could prove quite convenient - presuming they offer evening frequencies.
Long gone. One or two bars/restaurants, but it's dead. I took my wife to see it, except there was nothing to see to my surprise. The "hub", if you can call it that, has moved several blocks away.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: You seem to be of the mentality that because people use cars, they won't use public transport. Wrong. There is NO REALISTIC ALTERNATIVE to using a car, hence why so many are driven or rented down there.
Yes Mr. Mayo, I do hold that point of view; as one who "goes down every year', I guarantee you I'm not to be without my wheels, either rented or my own - and I don't think that would be different if, say, the region had the same degree of mass transit availability as you have over there in the major cities within the UK. You, along with many others who participate here, are obviously more "mass transit minded" than is the average American; especially those with resources to consider vacations other than visits with relatives.
I guarantee you I don't know too many, if any, others that will do without an auto (save the visiting relatives segment). The airlines, airport operators, lodging, attractions, and most of all, the auto rental companies all want it that way - and they have the collective lobby to keep it that way.
By way of reference, on the February trip with my Sister, account a recurring ear blockage, she was unable to fly back to New York on our scheduled day of departure. When I said, "I gotta go home as scheduled" she understood and was prepared to stay on her own (turned out for two more days). However, her last request to me was "will you help me round up a rented car?" (of course I did).
Also of interest; auto rentals "ain't cheap" in Florida anymore. I paid $110/day plus every add on you can think of for a Nissan Sentra last February. Hertz calls it a mid-size; anyone else calls it a "compact".
Regarding Church Street, I'll take your word on that one; I'm mite past the age to be too interested in "pub crawling'. My "bed hour" is 830PM be it on vacation or at home.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: You, along with many others who participate here, are obviously more "mass transit minded" than is the average American; especially those with resources to consider vacations other than visits with relatives.
I guarantee you I don't know too many, if any, others that will do without an auto (save the visiting relatives segment).
Apart from the millions of Americans that DO use public transport, presumably? How many sensible people do you know that drive to work in Manhattan every day? None? Would that be because NY has a moderately good transit system? While Orlando isn't as compact as Manhattan, there are corridors that would benefit from modern public transport.
Don't forget the millions of foreign tourists visiting Orlando every year as well, many of whom are familiar with public transport.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: The airlines, airport operators, lodging, attractions, and most of all, the auto rental companies all want it that way - and they have the collective lobby to keep it that way.
Car rental companies, I'd agree with you on. Lodging is certainly wrong, as it is well known that such places get better footfall statistics when located close to good public transport than those "out of the way". It is no coincidence that the bigger chains will actively pay for a direct bridge, or at least covered walkway, from a transit station to their lobby. Airports as well, you name me one major airport built or extended in the last decade without a major transit link built for it.
Until the "collective lobby" are told what they are required to do for the benefit of the population, rather than the authorities bending over backwards to please a few business owners or lobbyists, then you will have no progress.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Regarding Church Street, I'll take your word on that one; I'm mite past the age to be too interested in "pub crawling'. My "bed hour" is 830PM be it on vacation or at home.
It had shops and eateries, not just bars. My mother still has some decorative candles she bought there 9 years ago (and not from THAT chain store).
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
What pains me with the demise of Church Street Crossing is the vintage dome car sitting there beside the tracks rusting away.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Everybody has to believe in something. I believe I'll take the train! Posts: 230 | From: Ithaca, New York | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: Apart from the millions of Americans that DO use public transport, presumably? How many sensible people do you know that drive to work in Manhattan every day? None? Would that be because NY has a moderately good transit system?.
My Father was one of 'em; he always "drove in" to his office on Manhattan. My Sister always "drives in' (her home in Riverside CT is 2 miles from the train station) to whatever events/functions she attends ("oh, now what if I want to bring something in to the kids and see my Grandchild in Brooklyn?"). Also, about a year ago, I met a gal on a flight to KHPN who "works (worked, nowadays?) on Wall Street" and "drives in'.
A minority of course that be assured I'm not about to join.
On the trip when my Sister got her ear blockage, was I even about to 'suggest" taking Amtrak back to NY? (she would have been home quicker and at considerably less expense than the two extra days of hotel and rental auto ran up) Lest we forget, we here comprise a communirty of railfans and train travelers.
Finally Mr. Presley, sorry to learn that a private car operator has not picked up UP Dome Coach 7009 apparently now decaying at Church Street.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mass transit does well in cities that have a good downtown core. One of our sons is a happy NJT commuter into the city and would consider it a waste of time to drive. Naturally a thriving central core tends to be in the older cities before urban sprawl took over in the fast growing sun belt cities.
I guess there seems to be a critical mass of population density before mass transit works well. While Los Angeles is certainly spread out, only in recent years has mass transit been seen as a necessity. Dallas/Ft. Worth is getting on the band wagon as is Charlotte. Unfortunately Atlanta knows it should do something, but politics seem to insure inaction.
My only reasons for going to Orlando are Disney with our granddaughter and Atlanta Braves spring training - also in the Disney complex. If Disney's excellent transportation system ever got linked to the outside world in a seamless fashion, I can't think of any reason to have a car there.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
The last attempt at a high speed rail in Florida effectively was hijaced by Disney and Dockery to the point that it was not good for much of anybody else. This is the primary thing that led to its justifiable homocide.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I like the Disney monorail. Too bad it doesn't link up with transit outside of Disneyworld.
-------------------- Everybody has to believe in something. I believe I'll take the train! Posts: 230 | From: Ithaca, New York | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
