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There is talk in these parts of restoring passenger train service between NYC and Binghamton by way of Scranton (I think). I heard it would be operated by Amtrak or as a Metro-North / New Jersey Transit combo operation. Anybody heard of this idea? My town is about an hour from Binghamton.
-------------------- Everybody has to believe in something. I believe I'll take the train! Posts: 230 | From: Ithaca, New York | Registered: May 2009
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Talk, Talk, Talk, Mr. Sommer; that's all it is. Remember with the abandonment of the DL&W Lackawanna Cut Off, there is no longer a direct routing.
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Sen. Clinton: "A rail line connecting Binghamton and NYC is especially crucial in the wake of Delta Airlines' decision in July of this year to terminate service to the Greater Binghamton Airport, despite ridership spiking 43% over the past year. This decision axed the direct Binghamton-JFK flight and has left potential NYC commuters with no way to easily access the Southern Tier."
Coach USA/Shortline Bus does however provide 9 direct buses from Binghamton to NYC every day, and one early morning bus that operates M-F.
-------------------- Everybody has to believe in something. I believe I'll take the train! Posts: 230 | From: Ithaca, New York | Registered: May 2009
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Relating to this topic, is the more "modest proposal" of providing rail commuter service between New York (city) and Monroe County PA (seat; Stroudsburg). Monroe County became a mecca for families in the $75-100K income range, and who could never afford real estate in the traditional Metropolitan area, to have home ownership. A comfortable home that would be in the $1M range in, say, Westchester, could be had for $200K, enabling such a family to qualify using the traditional 2.5 times income "rule of thumb".
But review this New York Times material, to see what the wage earner(s) endure in the way of bus transportation every working day.
If rail transportation were available, quality of life, including congestion on I-80, would be enhanced. However, even if the Lackawanna Cutoff could be restored to service, and a strong case could be made for the need of such service, I do not foresee such moving forth.
The reason is that there is no Federal level agency in place to operate all rail passenger service. Amtrak, a Federal agency (stow all that crap about a "for profit" corporation), is of course barred from sponsoring, as distinct from operating under a Purchase of Service or similar agreement, commuter services. The logical agency to run such a service is New Jersey Transit, but 'what in it' for New Jersey?
The problem is that the people of NJ would be funding a route - even presuming that Federal funds (FTA) would be available to restore the Cutoff and acquire equipment - that is simply carrying non-taxpayers (income and real estate) through NJ so that they can pay those taxes out of state. Since they are captive aboard the train, they are not going to "stop for gas" in NJ. So why should NJ be bothered?
Contrary thoughts?
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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The Binghampton train idea has been around a long time. Don't hold your breath.
It is being subjected to the interminible political escape hatch of "Let's call for a study and that way we don't have to do anything real and we have thrown money to some of our buddies.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Relating to this topic, is the more "modest proposal" of providing rail commuter service between New York (city) and Monroe County PA
The proposal still has Scranton (Lackawanna County seat) as the western terminus (and Hoboken, New Jersey as the eastern). The last time NJT talked about using East Stroudsburg as the terminus was very early in the 2000s decade. The Pennsylvania Northeast Regional Rail Authority (new name for the combined Lackawanna and Monroe County rail authorities), current owner of the former DL&W between Slateford and Scranton (of late, they managed to purchase the line from Analomink to Slateford from Norfolk Southern, who wasn't using it), is the entity providing support (albeit meager) to NJT (not PennDOT), and their continued goal is the extension to Scranton.
quote:Monroe County became a mecca for families in the $75-100K income range, and who could never afford real estate in the traditional Metropolitan area, to have home ownership
Actually, the majority of newer Monroe (and, frankly, Lehigh/Northampton, although that's another issue) homeowners are lower-income (perhaps $40K ceiling, but even lower than that) that were driven out of New Jersey not only by onerous mortgage rates and rent fees, but also exorbitant municipal taxes that served only to feed the ever-upward raises of pay-to-play entrenched local politicians. (Hence the recent nickname "Pennsyljersey" for much of PA's northeastern side adjacent to the Delaware.)
quote:Amtrak, a Federal agency (stow all that crap about a "for profit" corporation), is of course barred from being in the commuter business
No; David Gunn tried to remove them from the "commuter business" during his tenure. There is no barring of Amtrak from being a contract operator, and certainly due to the interstate nature of even running to Scranton ("All Aboard Amtrak Lackawanna Limited"?), Amtrak can invoke its mandate as an operator of same.
Also, IIRC, Amtrak is not a "federal agency", but a "quasi-governmental" one. Not quite the European "public-private partnership" styling that's popular for light rail and newer commuter rail startups, but not a full arm of the federal government either (e.g. SNCF or the former Deutsche Bundesbahn).
quote:The problem is that the people of NJ would be funding a route - even presuming that Federal funds (FTA) would be available to restore the Cutoff and acquire equipment - that is simply carrying non-taxpayers (income and real estate) through NJ so that they can pay those taxes out of state. Since they are captive aboard the train, they are not going to "stop for gas" in NJ. So why should NJ be bothered?
That false argument is more applicable to the other main rail artery (the Northeast Corridor) and of course to the interstates, especially the through freight that they carry and the many through passenger cars that also don't stop for a refuel in NJ.
New Jersey taxpayers have a lot more expensive projects whose burden they have to bear, even aside from the extremely-porkified "ARC tunnel" to Macy's basement, the state's light rail projects that cost far more per mile than new-build high-speed railroads (into the hundreds of millions per mile), experimental genset-powered/catenary-powered dual-mode locomotives (at $12 million each, four times that of normal locomotives, whose horsepower ratings continually decline as the design gets worked out), and NJT's mimic of the former Amtrak Atlantic City Express that has just seen a reduction in service due to lack of ridership (the cars for the ACES train were bought by NJT in advance of any payment that the C.R.D.A. might have promised that agency, therefore the taxpayer took a hit there). I could name other projects aside from rail-related, but then that would be quite the bit of "thread drift" and might perturb some contributors.
BTW, one of the vocal (but apparently not in earnest) supporters of Amtrak service to Binghamton, senator Chuck Schumer, was castigated in the press for uttering an obscene epithet to a stewardess who instructed him to switch off his cellular telephone, on board a flight from LaGuardia to Washington. (A flight, rather than an Amtrak train, please note.)
Posts: 566 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Amtrak, a Federal agency (stow all that crap about a "for profit" corporation), is of course barred from being in the commuter business
As edited:
Amtrak, a Federal agency (stow all that crap about a "for profit" corporation), is of course barred from sponsoring, as distinct from operating under a Purchase of Service or similar agreement, commuter services.
Edit made to reflect Mr. Chieftain's point that Amtrak continues to operate commuter services for sponsoring agencies under what is known within the industry as a Purchase of Service Agreement. Why, since the Gunn administration, Amtrak has been steadily moving away from handling such business escapes me, as it only reduces the "relevance' of Amtrak as a provider of railroad passenger service.
Contrary thoughts? well; guess I asked for 'em.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Agree with Grey Lady or not, no other newspaper begins to match The New York Times with their "in depth" investigative reporting. While this 2004 material (could such have been the precursor to the foreclosure "crisis"?) is lengthy and off-topic, it may help a reader evaluate need, regardless of agency operating such, for rail passenger service connecting the Monroe County region with New York City.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Edit made to reflect Mr. Chieftain's point that Amtrak continues to operate commuter services for sponsoring agencies under what is known within the industry as a Purchase of Service Agreement. Why, since the Gunn administration, Amtrak has been steadily moving away from handling such business escapes me, as it only reduces the "relevance' of Amtrak as a provider of railroad passenger service.
Contrary thoughts? well; guess I asked for 'em.
I think Amtrak's moving out of the commuter operations has much to do with the local angencies trying to saddle Amtrak with every conceivable legal liability such that it leaves them with an unacceptable level of exposure to irrational lawsuits. Thus we see operation contracts going to miscellaneous entities that really do not know what they are doing and/or have set up corporate firewalls such that they can simply walk away from disasters, which Amtrak cannot.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I suspect this is one time the Class 1 railroads are rooting for Amtrak to get these contracts. It is a lot easier to deal with one entity, operationally, than the fragmented approach as commuter services search for a lower cost, 'innovative' operator that is a novice in rail operations.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Interesting info in here, everyone. Just my two cents: Hoboken NJ is a simply lovely little train station, even though it's not Amtrak.
And while I don't know about Chuck Schumer's rude behavior to a stewardess, I do imagine he also takes Amtrak between NYP and WAS, since he is back and forth all the time and probably does both train and plane, depending on particular logistics. Many other NE pols take Amtrak to WAS too: You all know about Biden and Specter, and I saw Joe Lieberman in the Club ACELA Lounge in NYP a few months ago, with his wife and two grandchildren.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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