posted
I figure this should make something interesting. I was thinking that they should add a service from Miami to Chicago, reinstate the Sunset to Jacksonville, Chicago to Ok City, just to name a few
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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Old topic; yes, yes, and yes to the routes above. Also, Chicago to Des Moines, IA, and how about Cincinnati to Detroit just to cut across the grain?
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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That would be a great route, I totally forgot about it. Now that I think of it, the FEC route Jacksonville to Miami
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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Hmm .. . . Chicago to Winnipeg, MB. Maybe Chicago to Duluth/Superior. Or, how about Saint Paul - KC, via Des Moines ?
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by SunsetLtd: El Paso- Albuquerque- Denver?
And continuing on to Portland, OR or Seattle, WA, via the old Pioneer route.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I like El Paso-Albuquerque-Denver also, but I would then extend the train further north than Denver, maybe through Cheyenne, Cody, then ??? in Montana to connect with the EB. I looked at a railroad atlas once and saw that there are still tracks over that route, but I don't know what the status of them is now. It'd be good to have at least one train through Wyoming, a state which currrently has 0 scheduled AMTRAK service (except when the CZ makes the detour onto the Overland Route when the Moffatt Tunnel is being worked on)
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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I think the focus should be on connecting cities regionally Richmond-Charltotte, Richmond to Washington DC should be increased by Virginia/Maryland Transit. Chicago to Miami would be a good idea and would make Amtrak competitive with airlines if the trains could keep running through blizzards, yet as this years storms has shown Amtrak and the Frieghts do not emphasise that. My thoughts have always been to build ridership the railroads have to get people to learn about train trips on shorter trips through regional rides before they would go cross country.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Here are three 'new routes' never operated by Amtrak that I would personally like to see - all relatively MODEST additions that could make a big difference feeding connecting passengers to existing LD trains. These suggestions would serve regions that have been increasingly passenger train friendly and are a little more realistic because they would be 'day trains' operating 500 miles or less -
1) Asheville, NC - Charlotte, NC - Columbia, SC: Connections to points northeast at Salisbury, NC, connections to Florida at Columbia, SC.
2) Twin Cities, MN - Kansas City, MO: (might someday extend overnight to Oklahoma City and integrate the Heartland Flyer on to Texas.) Connections to Denver and the Bay area at Creston, IA, connections to Albuquerque and Southern California at Kansas City.
3) Extend the am departure (pm arrival) from St. Louis of the Missouri River train from Kansas City to Omaha, NE: Provides connections from St. Louis to SOCAL at Kansas City and to the Bay Area at Omaha.
Of course there are several 'former' Amtrak routes that I would like to see restored.... Chicago-Florida, The Sunset east of New Orlenas, the Pioneer, the Desert Wind for instance BUT there are huge obstacles to each of these.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Definitely something linking Florida to Atlanta, then continuing on to Chattanooga & Nashville, and perhaps Chicago--although a connection of some sort between Nashville and Memphis would also be good. And of course bring back the Sunset Ltd east of New Orleans. And a train in Montgomery AL. FL train should also go up in the east stopping in Stewart area, for instance--this might not be Amtrak, maybe extend Tri-Rail? But Tri-Rail has to run better weekends, if so. Also in the SE, one should be able to regularly go by train to Asheville NC, even if only a spur line.
There should be a train to Phoenix; ridiculous that there isn't. And one to Las Vegas; again, absurd not to have one. There should be train service to Cheyenne WY, to Boise ID, and to Billings & Missoula & Helena MT. There should be a train to get one near to Jackson WY or something else close to Yellowstone.
I'd like to see the Michigan train continue on to Toronto, as before. I'd also love to see a train up to Winnepeg from someplace in the States. The OK City Heartland Flyer should continue north, stopping in Guthrie and then I'm not sure, would be good to have something to Tulsa, Wichita, but that would be detour I think. And definitely a train from Chicago to Des Moines, preferably stopping in Galena and Dubuque. Also some kind of service to Madison. And to Duluth MN too. And there should be a train to someplace reasonably close to Mount Rushmore. And one should have a train all the way north in Michigan too--at least seasonally--like say to Mackinaw City.
Ohio is a disgrace, a state like that with no trains connecting major cities like Columbus and Akron. The Cincinnati service should be daily too, of course. And there should be trains to Louisville and Lexington KY.
Maine service should be extended beyond Portland both on the coast and in toward Augusta or Bangor. And would be good to get Manchester/Concord NH in there as well (though their bus service is quite nice, actually--it's not Greyhound!)
Also probably a train to Amarillo TX (but not changing any present routes!) and definitely better service to Houston. And Sunset Ltd daily of course.
Also a train (perhaps a little spur) to Baton Rouge. And Natchez would be very nice too.
And there should be a train to Reading PA area, and Philly's Reading Terminal should be a terminal once again.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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GBN - I'm beginning to think that you once harbored dreams of being a disc jockey!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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#2 on your dreamlist (Twin Cites-KC>Texas) is actually my namesake, the (Rock Island) Twin Star Rocket. And I still have the 1950's timetables. Now part of UP, this route is known as the "spine line" and is in very good condition.
However, it does not intersect with the Zephyr at Creston, but rather in Chariton, Iowa. Now don't tell Mr. Norman this, but I actually visited Chariton on one of my many auto trips to catch the SWC in La Plata. And yes, indulging the folly of this hopeless foamer, I wanted to see where my newly reinstated Twin Star Rocket could have a transfer point to the CZ. It took some exploring on back streets and such, but there is no common depot. The Rock Island and CB&Q evidently had different stations in Chariton about 10 blocks apart. The rails intersected with a bridge in an undeveloped area (as in lots of brush and dirt and junk, kinda scary) and trains evidently could never connect from one route to the other.
So Amtrak would have to buy land and build a station, or provide motorized transfer. Score one for Mr. Norman.
But the times for the old Twin Star Rocket would provide perfect connectivity from my Twin Cities to the CZ and SWC to the west. At Chariton 6:10 pm southbound and 12:32pm northbound. At KC it arrived 9:30pm sb and 9:30am nb. It also left MSP at 11:45am and arrived from the south at 7:20pm, again providing excellent connections with the Builder to the west with a reasonable allowance for late trains! And by OK City, it ran on about the same schedule as the Heartland Flyer. Then it went on to serve Houston and Galveston at very attractive times.
Think of all the new possible city pairs this route would create! It would even still work out fine for connectivity if it started earlier, arrived later, and ran slower than in the 50's.
Yes, bring back the Twin Star Rocket! A way for us old snowbirds to avoid driving to escape the midwestern winter. I am getting awful tired of that drive to La Plata.
-Jerry
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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And, oh yes the name is so appropriate. Connecting the North Star State to the Lone Star State, and the twin cities of MSP to the twin cities of DFW. But I suppose if everyone feels like keeping the current name of the southern segment, we could call it the Twin Star Heartland Flyerrocket.
Now Mr. Norman, you can find a youtube of "Dream the Impossible Dream" and imagine me on my steed charging windmills in Chariton Iowa.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Ahhhhhhh Mr. Norman, I KNEW it,, I knew it! I DJ'ed three mornings a week one semester for the FM station at my college as an undergraduate. The station manager was a close friend and pretty good French Horn player......and he was a little shorthanded that fall.
Sorry for the incorrect assumption Twin Star - I simply glanced at my US Railroad wall map in my office while typing and saw the intersection, a town beginning with 'C', and assumed I was looking at Creston.
My many friends in the Dubuque area would be terribly disappointed to see me fall so short in the area of Iowa geography.
If such a train as the Twin Star Rocket ever comes back to life, it would make sense to interface with the California Zephyr if at all possible. Zip 5er's ought to be able to reach any point on the west by rail without going via Chicago or without spending more than two nights enroute.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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While I'm tempted to play the game, I think my big wish for Amtrak, would be to do a better job on the LD routes they already have, and not just improved amenities.
With OTP almost acceptable now, I continue to be amazed at how poorly Amtrak utilizes their equipment. Job one would be to shake up the terminals responsible for servicing the equipment to get them in, cleaned, and out in something under 18-24 hours it now takes on some routes. Back 'in the day' trains would be routinely turned in 2/3 hours.
I would then use the extra equipment that results to expand the consists of the trains. It is hard to believe the Florida trains are usually 8 or 9 cars. The SCL and even early Amtrak had train sizes almost twice that size - with revenues to match. Perhaps a little advertising might help to fill those extra seats.
Ok, then I would think about adding service on no brainer routes - some of which Notelvis mentions. To his list I would add: -Extension of the Palmetto to Jax -Extension of the CONO to the Gulf cities/ casinos and Mobile, AL -Connect the Sunset/SWC/CZ routes via El Paso/Albuquerque/Denver -Finally, if we're in dream mode, provide better service in the southeast! Connect from Chicago and the CONO at Memphis to Birmingham via BNSF(Crescent connections) then second daily service to Atlanta and on to Savannah via NS for Silver Service connections. This might be best as two daylight trains - the Southland -Memphis to ATL, the Nancy Hanks III -ATL to Savannah.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: If we're dreaming -
Here are three 'new routes' never operated by Amtrak that I would personally like to see - all relatively MODEST additions that could make a big difference feeding connecting passengers to existing LD trains. These suggestions would serve regions that have been increasingly passenger train friendly and are a little more realistic because they would be 'day trains' operating 500 miles or less -
1) Asheville, NC - Charlotte, NC - Columbia, SC: Connections to points northeast at Salisbury, NC, connections to Florida at Columbia, SC.
2) Twin Cities, MN - Kansas City, MO: (might someday extend overnight to Oklahoma City and integrate the Heartland Flyer on to Texas.) Connections to Denver and the Bay area at Creston, IA, connections to Albuquerque and Southern California at Kansas City.
3) Extend the am departure (pm arrival) from St. Louis of the Missouri River train from Kansas City to Omaha, NE: Provides connections from St. Louis to SOCAL at Kansas City and to the Bay Area at Omaha.
Of course there are several 'former' Amtrak routes that I would like to see restored.... Chicago-Florida, The Sunset east of New Orlenas, the Pioneer, the Desert Wind for instance BUT there are huge obstacles to each of these.
I agree so much. An extra train between Columbia and Charlotte would be so helpful for me, not to mention I know good railfaning locations on the "R"line
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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-------------------- Matt Visit gallery for photos of our train layouts Posts: 579 | From: San Bernardino Subdivison | Registered: Dec 2001
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I forgot one, Charlotte-Miami, Atlanta-Savannah, Charlotte-Wilmington NC, The Twin Star Rocket, Washington-St Louis, LA-Las Vegas, Chicago-Rapid City, New York- Cincinnati, west coast service in florida, Asheville-Savannah via Saluda, and lastly over the former Lackawanna Phoebe Route
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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I agree with you about Maine. We need a train from Portland to Auburn/Lewiston so I can turn the clock back around 60 years and revisit my mother's home town by rail.
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Would it be better for these regional connections. Connections between 2 to 3 states or more depending on the size of state. Shouldn't these be run through a state or public private type agencys or even something like the utility companys. Running it from Washington won't be efficient. I'm also hoping these just aren't extension of a LD train those are just not reliable enough for anyone to relay on for regular service.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: sojourner, that's STUART, vice STEWART.
I agree with you about Maine. We need a train from Portland to Auburn/Lewiston so I can turn the clock back around 60 years and revisit my mother's home town by rail.
Ya know, thanks to the short-lived 'Kentucky Cardinal', I did have a couple of opportunities to realize the dream by arriving and departing by scheduled passenger train at Louisville Union Station.....my mom's hometown rail terminal.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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That would be another route that would be good is the Kentucky Cardinal, or you could service it with a train from Chicago, to Florida. Then another good route is Nashville to Memphis. Cincinnati to Detroit
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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New routes for amtrak, I posted these over at the Silver Rails forum to see and only got one response.
1. Twinstar Rocket. MpStP via Des Moines, KC, OKC, DFW, and on to Housten.
2. Portland Rose/City of St. Lous. KC via Denver, Cheyenne, Ogden, and on to Portland.
3. National Limited. KC via St. Louis, Route to be determined, Pittsburgh, and on to Phillidelphia. No not NYC or DC, you can connect to trains to there at Philly.
4. Florida Service. Chicago via the old C&EI, Evansville, Nashville, Birmingham, Montgomery, and onto Jacksonville then Orlando. Adds two state capitals to the system.
5. El Paso to Denver.
6. LA to Vegas.
7. Coast Daylight. San Fransisco to LA
8. NYC to Chicago. Limited stop service via Philly, Harrisburg, Altoona, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toledo, Elkhart, and onto Chicago. those would be the only stops, with engine changes at Harrisburg or Philly.
9. Atlanta to Florida service.
10. Cardinal and Sunset go to Daily service.
Posts: 14 | From: SE KS/SW MO | Registered: Mar 2008
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Thanks, Mike. I seem to have a mental block and keep typing Stewart. Really, to my mind, Stuart just does not seem like the proper spelling of a place (a Scottish royal family, maybe, though they do spell even that one both ways).
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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It is so tough at times to come up with ideas, here is a another idea, Raleigh-Atlanta service, Washington-Norfolk, and Charlotte-Wilmington service
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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Take the Ohio 3C and keep going to Atlanta, Jacksonville, Miami
Take another Ohio 3C and keep going to Louisville, Nashville, Birmingham, Mobile, New Orleans.
Yes, to a revived Twin Star Rocket, except run it over the former MKT between Kansas City and Dallas, giving an early morning arrival / late evening departure at Ft. Worth or Dallas. At that point it can split into San Antonio and Houston trains.
A Chicago - Memphis day train.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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That would be super good, I like the Ohio-Miami idea, like the New Royal Palm
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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Twinstar Rocket would probly have to be on the BNSF(ex Santa Fe)thru Wichita or BNSF(ex Frisco) Springfield Sub/Afton Sub/Cherokee sub to Tulsa and then onto DFW because of cost to upgrade the ex Katy lines to DFW.
Posts: 14 | From: SE KS/SW MO | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: A Chicago - Memphis day train.
Taking it a little further: 1100A Chicago 600P 134P Champaign 310P 426P Carbondale 1216A 950P Memphis 740A 220A Jackson 1444A 632A New Orleans 1045P You'd ideally need sleepers for this though. I was playing around with the figures but my fleet utilisation was poor when trying to work out the trainsets required to protect the service, despite the elimination of a 22-hour layover in New Orleans.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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That is really good, give me a day, and I'll post my figures for Chicago to Miami
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: Taking it a little further: 1100A Chicago 600P 134P Champaign 310P 426P Carbondale 1216A 950P Memphis 740A 220A Jackson 1444A 632A New Orleans 1045P
Interesting schedule, Mr. Mayo.
I think Amtrak holds that ridership is stronger having the CHI-NO train on its existing SB Louisane's schedule where passengers can board or alight the small towns through Mississippi during daylight hours. Not only is it more convenient for passengers, but also more convenient for those meeting or dropping them.
On A-Day, Amtrak operated the CHI-NOL train as a daylight emulating the pre-Amtrak City schedule. However, operating conditions resulting from both increased freight traffic as well as 'single tracking' between CHI and MEM render a 17hour 'daylight' schedule no longer feasible. Amtrak has also operated the service on the overnight Panama Limited schedule, or something attempting to adhere to it, as they do today NB.
In short, I believe considering that all there is and will be is "one a day', Amtrak is making 'the best of it' with what they got. Of final interest, I can never recall the IC having a midday SB departure from Chi (there was a 3PM under the 1967-71 "Mini-Corridor" model). But I do recall learning there was one that was killed prior to WWII.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Maybe instead of changing the City's schedule, they could extend the Illini down to Memphis. Now that would require an extra train or two, but it would work. It would leave a day train south and north of Memphis
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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These ^^^ are some very good ideas; here are my three requests: reroute the SWC to the transcon freight main from Dalies, NM to that place in KS; near Emporia, I think? where it rejoins the current route. Keep SWC on the old ATSF from Galesburg to CHI; restart svc. to Chillicothe, Streator and Joliet. A daily Sunset that terminates at NOL, and re-start the old Desert Wind LAX-SLC and tack the sleeper and coach onto the CZ at SLC, like times of old. I know none of this will probably happen; just credit it to the pinings of an old retired rail whose rocking chair gives him wild ideas...haha, I'm making myself sound as if I'm 85, when I really just a young 57! Good thread starter, A-92.
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Thanks, I think the transcon would have good potential and it would be on time, as isn't it almost all double track. I do think the Sunset could make good money if it went daily. The desert wind would be so good.
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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I'm not sure if this line would have any profit, but Columbia-Myrtle Beach
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by amtrak92: I'm not sure if this line would have any profit, but Columbia-Myrtle Beach
You would have to relay some track somewhere to connect Myrtle Beach with the national network. What's left kind of zig-zags to get there.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yeah, you would have to build a new line from Florence and then use the abandoned right of way of a branch to Anyor, and then you could use the current route, but you would have to relay that too, it wouldn't be worth all of the hassle probably. Also to make it work you would have to have it connect with the Meteor, Star, and Palmetto
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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