I've struggled a bit trying to decide how to present this trip, a special train which runs once a year staffed by volunteers as opposed to any regular service operated by Amtrak......
Sans any particular angle - suffice to say that on October 31st I rode in a Budd Built half-dome car from the North Carolina Transportation Museum in Spencer to Asheville. All told, there were 11 Amfleet cars and 14 heritage fleet era cars dating from the 1940's and 50's.
These heritage cars were all owned by various NRHS Chapters such as the Watauga Valley Chapter in Johnson City, TN which co-sponsored this excursion, or by private individuals. I spent most of my time in the rear four cars of the train, most notably a stainless steel Budd round-end observation car which was lettered Louisville & Nashville but had been that road's contribution to the jointly operated Crescent Limited fleet, My own dome which was lettered for Northern Pacific, and a car which has long-fascinated me, the former Seaboard 'Hollywood Beach' with it's 5 bedrooms and lounge section with overhead glass.
We boarded before dawn and backed out of the museum grounds before heading south to Salisbury and then westward to Asheville on a route devoid of regular passenger trains since August 1975. With such a long train....and my dome was the 23rd of 25 cars westbound..... it was easy to see what a hill and dale line this really is.
A Republican friend who enjoys riding passenger trains and, like me, can't understand how rail transit issues have become so polarized along party lines, remarked that if they can sell 800 tickets for a one-time excursion that surely there is adequate demand for regular service to Asheville...... who among us truly knows though.
In Asheville the locomotives were cut off and moved to the rear for the return trip.....a surprise to me because the wye at Asheville is still in service and I would have thought they would have wanted to keep the observation car oriented properly on the rear.
The return trip down Old Fort Mountain with the setting sun more-or-less behind us was even more impressive than the ride up..... the only frustration was that upon return to Salisbury we were held off the main-line for about 45 minutes delayed by a late-running Amtrak #79. Once the southbound Carolinian cleared the Salisbury depot, we then moved onto the mainline passing the Salisbury depot as if we were going to Charlotte. Once clear of the junction, our train then backed nearly 3 miles to just north of Spencer Yard, and then pulled forward into the museum. This delay and excrutiatingly long, slow, backup move rendered us an hour and twenty minutes late into Spencer...... but then with these types of excursions, the timekeeping doesn't really matter, right?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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David, I am amazed that the train had 25 cars. Surely there is a market for Asheville passenger service between those hard at work gentrifying that unique city, the many tourists making the trek to the Biltmore, or locals wanted to escape to the big cities but not a fan of I-40, especially in nasty weather that area has at times.
I am very jealous of your being able to ride in the L&N observation. Since I consider the L&N my 'home rode', those cars have always fascinated me. I did make a trip in them one time, on a short ride over to Milton, FL from Jax when they were used on the Gulf Wind (isn't that a great name) from Jax to NOL. I especially liked sitting in the rear observation area with the very large window, and an appropriate cocktail in hand, of course.
If that car is used on a similar excursion next year, I'll be there. I do believe it's in charter service out of Cincinnati, but for mega bucks, of course.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Actually, "Royal Street" (the car in question) is owned by American Rail Excursions in Illinois. They do run several excursion trips a year, and the car is a gem -- truly a beautiful restoration job. I first rode in it nearly a decade ago on a special train from Harrisburg, PA to Erie, thence down the B&LE and Union RR to Pittsburg, then up the B&P to Driftwood and back to Harrisburg.
I was on both the Asheville and Roanoke trips out of Spencer, and with the exception of the delay getting back into the museum on Sunday, the trips ran well and were very enjoyable. The Roanoke trip (over the former VGN from Altavista) was surprisingly scenic, as the railroad follows the Roanoke River. And both Roanoke and Asheville are good trip destinations. Hope for more trips next year!
Posts: 614 | From: Merchantville, NJ. USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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rresor, you answered the question I was just about to ask......the name of the car! Okay, I'm familiar with the Royal Street. Beautiful car. I rode in the Hollywood Beach for an AAPRCO trip a few years ago, and it is unique. Having a dome car on a single-level car sure was different!
It sounds like you had a nice trip, David.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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While not up to and including "The End", L&N "Royal--" Obs were assigned to the Gulf Wind - predecessor of Sunset East.
I can also thank one of those cars for making me a published ($5) TRAINS photographer, manely May 1965 for a photo taken at New Orleans during Jan that year.
Finally, SRY also had "Royal--' Obs cars that started out life identical to the L&N's, but along the way, they were converted to 11BR Sleepers. Their original assignment included The Crescent (the real deal; all-Pullman routed PRR-SRY-AWP-L&N) and the Detroit-Miami Royal Palm. This explains why FEC owned one such car which they retained as a PV but renamed "Azela".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Palmland - I'd suggest getting on the email list for the North Carolina Transportation Museum and also, if they still have one, the Watauga Valley NRHS Chapter out of Johnson City, TN. The Watauga Valley folks were apparantly involved in gathering the fantastic collection of private varnish which ran on this trip and with the consist doing more excursions out of Roanoke the following weekend, their activities seem to be providing at least four opportunities each fall to ride these magnificent cars.
WVNRHS also provided the car hosts for the excursions. Most of them were helpful and had a reasonable bit of knowledge about 'things railroad'..... or graciously deferred to those who did when they did not.
Mr. rresor - As this is a public forum, I do my best to protect the privacy of others by not going on about people I may have ridden with or spoken to on the train. At the risk of 'outing' you however, did you by any chance present at a meeting in Memphis before flying into Charlotte the day before for these excursions?
If so, it was a pleasure having you as my seat partner in the dome! Keep a sharp eye out for the trolls!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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The NCDOT first studied and discussed returning passenger trains to Asheville in 1994. Since that time there those of us who are interested in an Asheville train keep hearing whispered (but unsubstantiated) reports that Asheville is the most-requested destination that Amtrak has never served.
As political winds and the economy have shifted back and forth, the idea of serving Asheville has alternated between hot and cold. I'm not sure now if it will ever happen. However, I would not be surprised if the NC Transportation Museum pursues operating trips to Asheville more frequently..... maybe 4 a year instead of 1.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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GBN, the Crescent was all pullman pretty late in the game. A trip from Charlotte to Flomaton, AL in 1966 had no coaches Charlotte-Atlanta (SB only). The observation was also absent from the Royal Palm on a trip the year before. I guess the Southern decided the revenue space was more important - since they had that unique 2DR, Master Room, Lounge car on the Crescent.
David, I hope NC makes it happen. I have heard several scenarios - Washington to Asheville or, more likely, Charlotte to Asheville. Maybe it could be instead of a 4th Piedmont - heading off the mainline at Salisbury for the mountains.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I think a 4th Piedmont is likely to happen before a train to Asheville BECAUSE the NCDOT has always owned the tracks between Charlotte and Raleigh. NCDOT does not have to negotiate with NS to handle an additional passenger frequency on that route as they would have to in order to reach Asheville.
Personally..... if you'll allow me to dream.... I'd like to see an Asheville to Salisbury train continue southward to Charlotte (if the train runs forward with no backup move, it will be facing south at the Salisbury station) and then onward to Columbia, SC.
I would be thrilled if this train carried a through sleeper to Miami via connection with the Silver Star in Columbia.
That would make trips to visit my mother-in-law in Orlando far more pleasant.
Disclaimer - My mother-in-law bends over backwards to get along with me. She is nicer to me than she is in real life and I appreciate her effort. My remark about more pleasant visits has to do with the fact that flying can be annoying and I really hate driving I-95.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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David, loved your mother-in-law comment, I think I have that relationship with mine.
I think the only way your Columbia train could happen is if Amtrak rerouted the Star from Raleigh via that now higher speed line to Charlotte then down the NS to Columbia. I'll bet overall transit time wouldn't be much different. Although my fair city would lose service, I'd be all for it. SC will certainly not fund anything related to passenger rail.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I really don't see anything happening that would return passenger trains to the NS between Charlotte and Columbia..... and given the money spent on the Hamlet depot alone, I doubt that North Carolina would favor routing the Star off the former Saeboard mainline through Camden.
Maybe I would get my Asheville-Orlando service via a connection in Raleigh!!!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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A few years back, in fact shortly after the Saluda Grade was mothballed, I spent some time, just out of curiosity, looking at that line on topo maps. It would be feasible from an engineering perspective to build a line between Flat Rock NC (a couple miles south of Hendersonville) to Landrum SC that would get the grade down to right at 2.00%. Since it would have a rather hefty bridge and a tunnel, it probably is not economically feasible. However, if the Asheville Salisbury line became overwhelmed with traffic, the construction of an improved Saluda Grade would be worthy of consideration, as the crossing of the Blue Ridge Divide, which is NOT at Saluda, but just south of Flat Rock, is a few hundred feet lower on this route than on the Salisbury route.
With this, you would be able to have a revived Skyland Special as a connection off the Silver Star, and with a considerably faster schedule than the original.
Not exactly beneficial to Salisbury-Asheveille, but it would also make for a faster schedule to ASheville out of the northeast via Spartanburg SC rather than the line out of ASheville to Salisbury.
Is freight traffic now down somewhat on the Salisbury Asheville line? This line is a high clearance route, thanks to the clearance improvement programs of the 1960's, so some of the traffic that can now go on the ex N&W main thanks to the recent clearance program may have been going this ways previously.
(These tunnels were enlarged to the same cross section as those on the realigned Rathole: 20 feet wide and 30 feet high. The 20 feet not being 10 and 10 from the track center, but 8 feet one way and 12 feet the other.)
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I'm hardly a traffic density expert but it appears to me that freight traffic on Old Fort Mountain has been significantly lower since the economy slowed a couple of years ago. On our excursion we encountered only one opposing freight train in each direction. We also passed one in the hole switching an industry near Statesville on the return. That's not much on what turned out to be a 14 hour day.
Before the downturn, freight traffic on Old Fort had already taken a hit two decades ago when most of the traffic from the northeast going in the direction of Memphis/Birmingham/New Orleans was rerouted via the former N&W through Bristol. The closure of the Saluda grade seems to have only increased traffic on Old Fort by a single daily manifest freight and then a unit coal train to Belmont, NC running about once every second or third day.
While I would love to see a revived Skyland Special down the Saluda grade to the Silver Star, I think THAT would be a longer shot than Asheville-Salisbury-Charlotte-Columbia for several reasons..... the foremost being that the bulk of the support for such a train would be coming from the NCDOT. The train via Salisbury would allow connections to/from Raleigh and the opportunity to provide a direct connection to Florida for Charlotte area citizens is a pretty huge payoff.....politically speaking.
But then this is mostly conjecture. Odds are that the periodic excursions will be the only passenger trains Asheville sees again in my lifetime.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Well as far as Columbia Charlotte NC wants it. They ran a special Piedmont back a few years ago for it, I was a passenger then. And it was a good run, and had quite a few people wanting it. They want SC to help foot the bill and they don't want to do that. Specially with Hayley
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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amtrak92 - a joke at the expense of your lame duck governer -
This train might have gotten more support if there were a way of taking it all the way to Argentina!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Thanks for your report, David. I'd love to take the train to Asheville, but it falls at a difficult time of year for me . . . but who knows, maybe next year!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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