posted
Many of us use TripAdvisor to choose hotels and help make other travel decisions, but this item on Frommer's gives me pause.
GBN, for one, has always been skeptical about slavish reliance on TripAdvisor, and this buttresses his point of view.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Eh, I'm not too concerned. Every review website out there has this same problem. If one is a regular TripAdvisor reader and contributor, then you learn how to weed out the fakes. If the place is a dump (which is evident in user-submitted photographs) and the reviews all rave about the property and how wonderful it is, and those reviews are all within a very short, recent time span, then that is a sure giveaway that the reviews are phony. This happens on Yelp all the time, and it's nothing new.
Just like with anything, it's "caveat emptor", or in this case it's "reader" beware. The thing I find the handiest are the photos---not the "Professional Photos"---those are NEVER accurate. But the user-submitted photos. That tells me pretty much everything I need to know.
There is also an ongoing theme on TripAdvisor from new brides. Any time you read a review on TripAdvisor from a bride who had her "perfect wedding" planned at a hotel/resort, you will usually only see the highly negative reviews. Rarely do you see a positive review from a bride. If the hotel gets the color of roses wrong, then her "whole day is ruined". It's hilarious reading the reviews from brides who complain about the stupidest little things. Actually, I don't even read them any more. If I start reading a review and I see it's from someone who had a wedding there, I immediately skip it and move onto the next one---because I know it won't be a fair review.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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But the site that really is at the bottom of the barrel with me, as well as immediately noted by Mr. Smith, is Yelp. It seems as if the Yelp "consensus" is one way, that is what will be posted. If contrary, they get buried.
Case in point: it seems as if "Yelpers" have issues with my Lexus dealer at which I have done business for sixteen years and four vehicles.
Read the reviews that show up; fair to middling wouldn't you say?
Now if you want to read what I said, as well as anyone else who has had positive experiences there, you will have to go to the "filtered" tab way down at the bottom left of the scroll.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I had something really weird happen. I got a private message (Yelp message) from a person who worked for a company that "cleans up" reputations of businesses. They offered me $175 cash, direct payment to PayPal, if I gave up my Yelp account. I asked them, "How do I give it up?", and they said that I would give my password to them, and they will take over my account from that point on. In other words, they could delete any bad reviews I had, and they can add any positive reviews. I said NO WAY. I've since heard radio commercials that advertise this, and one name that comes to mind is "Reputation Defender". I think I know why they wanted my account---I gave an orthopedic surgeon a horrible review, with very specific facts. I told people they can contact me and I'll send them the surgery report as well as what subsequent doctors said (the surgeon performed a very unnecessary surgery, and he screwed it up as well).
So there are definitely shady things going on out there, but if you're careful and can figure out what's real and what isn't, then I find it extremely worthwhile.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Before I came to the US, there was a TV program in the UK about exactly this subject. But it was such a biased program that it really isn't worth commenting on except for the fact a hotelier I complained to showed up on the program! All of about 5 seconds and a couple of sentences, but I can tell you one thing - he was NOT filmed in his hotel (or not in any parts of the hotel I saw in).
I both read and contribute to TripAdvisor. I find the majority of the reviews fair and accurate. The ones that are inaccurate are obvious before you even step foot in the establishment - and this goes for both glowing reviews and bad reviews.
If I found 9 glowing reviews and 1 bad review then it's obvious somebody had a bad day. If the reverse happens then it's obviously a fake review.
The problem is the fewer the reviews, the harder it is to spot the fakes. Any place with masses of reviews means you don't even need to weed out the fakes because of the sheer numbers, and in any case, a place with a big turnover of guests is unlikely to be shockingly atrocious.
In summary, yes of course there are fake reviews in there, including people who only have good things to say "just because" they like the brand, have shares in them, treated their parents well once, or whatever. But most of us are sensible enough to see through that thin veil and see the reviews for what they are. Even your TV guide is biased.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Another example of being a prudent reader of these websites is the hotel that is owned by the owner of this forum: The Depot Inn and Suites in La Plata, MO. They had a group of "quilters" book the hotel for their annual getaway (or something similar to that). Due to miscommunication somewhere along the way, things did not go exactly as they wanted. They claimed that they were assured that they had booked the ENTIRE hotel, and nobody else would be allowed in---they thought it was their own personal, private hotel for the duration that they were there. Well, that was not the case at all---it's just a hotel. The leader of the quilters told everyone to write a negative review on them---and they did! They were overwhelmed with negative reviews from all of the quilters. I'm going to guess there were at least 15, maybe more--all very negative (even though the hotel was fine and there were no hotel issues at all---they just wanted their own private hotel all to themselves).
But as you read through the reviews, it becomes extremely obvious that it's just one single group of disgruntled old farts who got together and said, "Let's get 'em!". Because if you ignore their cluster of reviews, all of the others are 100% positive. But their ridiculous reviews degraded the Depot Inn from being the number one hotel in Northeast MO to something much further down the list.
But again, anyone who understands these reviews can figure out what happened in this case. And that's how it works with the other review sites as well---especially the Las Vegas properties, because they have a constant stream of reviews from thousands of people. It's hard to "cheat" for those guys.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Smitty, there are quite a few five-star wedding reviews on TripAdvisor for the Depot Inn, for whatever that's worth.
I'd give it 4 1/2 stars, and the half-star deduction only for the somewhat meager breakfast and the somewhat average Red Rooster next door. One needs a rental car to find decent eats in Kirksville.
One three-star review of the Depot Inn complained only about train noise during the night. Weeelllll . . .
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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What annoys me is when people give a negative review about a hotel because of the lack of facilities, when the hotel has been 100% open about the fact that it is a basic hotel with basic facilities and in no way tried to hide anything.
I stayed in a small hotel which states quite openly on their website that they have no elevator and most of the rooms are not en-suite, only to read a very negative review slagging them off because when the guest got there she found there was no elevator and most of the rooms were not en-suite!!
Posts: 395 | From: england | Registered: Sep 2002
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Henry---you don't like the Roo???? I really enjoy that restaurant, especially the breakfasts. (I agree that the Depot inn "breakfast", if you can even call it that, is marginal at best).
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I understand the Red Rooster has changed hands several times. Perhaps it was in the cards for me to dine there as a victim of bad hands.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Yelp and similar sites make their money by selling advertising packages to the businesses that are being rated. If you own a business that starts to get a few good reviews the sales people at Yelp will start calling you about buying a package that will enhance your profile page. If you buy, your page will offer more features and the good reviews will pop up first and the poor reviews will get buried. It's obvious that Mr. Norman's Lex dealer doesn't have a contract with Yelp, so the bad reviews are prominently displayed. If McGrath Lexus wants to improve their presence at Yelp, they will need to start sending Yelp a monthly check. (Or make sure that everyone who walks through the door is wildly satisfied with their experience when they walk back out.)
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Mr. Vincent, is that video and slide show at McGrath's page complimentary?
For myself, all I can say is just as well that I retired from practice ('03) as a CPA before Yelp and the others were "mainstream", if in fact even dreamed up. To me, I always held my clients voted with their $$$, and the referrals they sent me.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I don't do yelp, trip advisor, or much of anything else in the on-line review world. When I feel it necessary for basic information, I try to separate fact from "fact" and opinion as much as possible. I have several examples of my experiences differing from that in these sites, including a pre-internet disconnect between some stuff in Consumer Reports and experience.
Nice "yeld" recently: Looked up the dermatologist we visit because I did not have his phone number at hand. Yelp was right up there in the things that popped up when I searched for him by name. Several highly negative comments: He was brusque, appeared uncaring, did not explain things well, his waiting room was too small, the decor was "dated", someone waited well past their appointment time and a few other things.
Well, I go to a doctor for medical services, not a social occasion. An example: He picked up on a precancerous spot on my ear when I was there for something else altogether. Said, let's take care of it, and froze it off right then and there. Did all this within the normal appointment duration. If that is brusque, I will definitely go for brusque. Waiting room decor? Who cares? The chairs are comfortable. What else do we need? There I found him great.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I take the reviews at TripAdvisor and other customer feedback sites with a very large grain of salt.
True, many of the rapturously positive reviews are obviously planted there by the hotel/restaurant/whatever under review. But genuine reviews (especially when negative) are also of limited value when I know nothing about the person who wrote that review.
To someone normally accustomed to 4-star hotels, a plain-but-adequate 2-star will likely be "a dump."
To someone who has spent their entire life living in a pristine, upscale suburb, a trip to a restaurant in an even slightly raggedy urban neighborhood will be "terrifying."
As I've discovered over and over during my travels, what some consider "a dump" or "terrifying" often turns out to be perfectly comfortable and acceptable for me.
Different strokes for different folks. Which is why most reviews are essentially useless.
posted
I love TripAdvisor, and have learned two basic things that are extremely helpful to me:
-Pictures that users upload (because, as they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words")
-Hotels that have hundreds or even thousands of reviews (such as most Strip hotels in Vegas). That is such a large sampling of random people that it's easy to tell if the place is decent or not. I have stayed at EVERY hotel on the Las Vegas Strip a minimum of one time (but in many cases, dozens of times), and I can tell you this with absolute certainty: Their list of hotels that go from number 1 to number 25 are spot-on accurate. They list them in almost the same order that I would (except I would move Encore and Wynn to numbers 3 and 4, respectively).
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote: I have stayed at EVERY hotel on the Las Vegas Strip a minimum of one time (but in many cases, dozens of times), and I can tell you this with absolute certainty: Their list of hotels that go from number 1 to number 25 are spot-on accurate.
Smitty, are you confessing to a certain obsessive-compulsiveness, or just indulging in your customary hyperbole?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Henry-Back at the end of 2005, I got a bee in my bonnet and decided to go to Vegas----A LOT. After the first dozen or so trips there, I always stayed at a different property because I would always tell myself, "Next time I'm going to try THAT hotel". It eventually turned into a commitment that I made to myself---to stay in every single hotel on the Strip. I accomplished that goal about 18 months ago. From late 2005 to present, I have been going to Las Vegas regularly on an average of every 4 to 6 weeks. Sometimes I'd be home for two weeks and then go right back, other times it would be a few weeks longer. But on average, 4 to 6 weeks is an accurate average.
The more I went, the more I gambled (and won) at blackjack. I learned the trick of the player's cards in Vegas, and that has paid me back handsomely. And because most of the Strip hotels are owned by the same two companies (MGM Resorts and Harrah's), that meant that I would get constant email and snail-mail invitations for every property on the Strip. There are only a few independents remaining--and those won't last long.
To be technical, once City Center opened, my record of every hotel was broken and I had 5 new hotels I had to stay at. I've nailed a few of them already, and I only have two remaining: Mandarin Oriental and Vdara. I plan to stay at Vdara this summer, but will wait on the MO until the week before xmas which is the "secret" time period when all Vegas hotel prices go drastically down---even the six star properties like the MO.
So to answer your question, nope, it's not hyperbole. I guess you could call is OCD, or, you could just call it a fun goal.
(Should I be offended by "customary" hyperbole?)
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Me too, please! It's one of the few games that (a) I know how to play; (b) has an element of skill rather than pure luck; (c) isn't controlled by a computer - on the physical card version at least.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Well, I don't mind giving away some "secrets" here because they're really not so secret. It's just that I learned through both trial and error AND talking with pit posses and casino employees to learn how it all works. Here are the basics:
-ALWAYS sign up for a player's card whenever you step foot in a casino. I will say it again: *ALWAYS* sign up. Never, ever skip the opportunity. You can't get freebies from the hotels/casinos if they don't know you exist!!
-ALWAYS put activity on your card every time you visit. Yes, there are "points" and now, more and more, casinos are publishing what their points chart is and what you "win" at certain levels. I ignore all of that because that's for beginners. Just put activity on your card and leave it at that. What is activity? Simple---play something! If you are a slot person, ALWAYS make sure you put your card in the slot. Once it's in, MAKE SURE THE MACHINE RECOGNIZES YOU. Those little machines are fickle, and oftentimes you'll put your card in and it won't register your presence. You have to withdraw it and put it back in again until you see your name appear on the screen. Same with blackjack or any other table game---ALWAYS put the card down on the table the instant you sit down. Make sure the supervisor (the one who picks up your card) gets you into the system. There is nothing wrong with asking him, "Did you get that last $100 I bought?". Make sure they log every penny you spend.
-Now that you have activity on your card, I guarantee you will get offers for comp rooms. You have to take advantage of these comp offers. If you don't, then their computer will kick you off the "freebie" list and you won't hear from them again.
-Once you've taken them up on a few free offers, stop by the "Casino Credit" office and introduce yourself to a host. Tell them that you'll be checking out tomorrow, and you'd like to know if they can comp anything for you. You will give them your player's card, and they'll look you up in the computer to see what your gaming activity is. If you spent enough money, you'll get stuff knocked off your bill, which brings me to my next tip:
-ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS charge EVERYTHING to your room. Never pay cash in a hotel, and never use your credit card in a casino. ROOM CHARGE ROOM CHARGE ROOM CHARGE. That way, when you talk to your host (that you introduced yourself to on the last trip), he or she can look at your charges and you can say something like, "Can you comp my room service bills?". It never hurts to ask---ALWAYS ask. What's the worse they can say---no? So what---let them say no. But always give them the opportunity to give you freebies also.
-When you take them up on a free offer for hotel rooms, when you go and visit, you MUST put gaming activity on your card. The last thing these places want is for you to come on their dime, and then see you not spend anything on gaming. You will NOT get invited back---trust me. So just stop by a slot machine and put 50 bucks in to make sure you put activity on your card. Then you'll continue to get comps in the mail.
I rarely pay for my suites (and it's almost always a gorgeous suite), and I rarely pay for my food. The hotel picks all of that up for me, and I am NOT a high roller. I just do everything I mentioned above and it works out very well.
I don't mind giving these tips away because I know that 99% of people won't do it. They will be too shy to approach a host and ask for a freebie. Just like I know that almost nobody will do a "tip sandwich" at check-in to a hotel. At the 5 stars, tip $50 to the check-in clerk and you'll get a really awesome room or suite for no extra cost. At the 3-4 stars, tip $20 to the check-in clerk and you'll get something awesome as well. NEVER tip $20 at a 5 star (with the 5 stars being: Wynn, Encore, Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, Aria, Bellagio, Venetian/Palazzo). 20 bucks will go very far at places like Mirage, TI, Caesars, Luxor, Mandalay Bay, Harrah's, Imperial Palace, Planet Hollywood. It's called a "tip sandwich" because you put the cash in between your driver's license and your credit card----they always ask for these two things at check-in, so you hand it over to the clerk. They will see the cash, and they will know what you're doing. I am very specific with my tip sandwiches, and I ask for exactly what I want. Usually, I get it. Your chances are much higher midweek than they are on the weekend.
One final note----Vegas is a COMPLETELY different town on Friday/Saturday/Sunday. I never go during that time period because I think it's pretty bad. Lots of LA gangs show up, lots of "rookies" who get drunk and get in fights, lots of guys who think they're very tough and are eager to prove it by fighting....Not only that, but everything is more expensive: hotel rooms, buffets, shows, etc. But if you go to Vegas Monday-Thursday, it's much quieter, much safer, and much cheaper. The very cheapest week to go to Vegas is the week before Chrismtas. Lots of shows are "dark" because the actors are on xmas vacation, so don't expect to see too many shows. But you can stay in beautiful luxury for a very cheap price. I stayed in a Four Seasons Sunrise/Sunset suite that was 5 times larger than my house, I had my own private butler who got me anything I wanted, a Maybach picked me up at the airport, and it was quite the experience. Cost: $149/night.
By the way, for those who are blackjack players, you're gonna have to avoid single and double-deck games. Unfortunately, they changed the rules to make it more to the house's advantage. A blackjack only pays 6-5 instead of the normal 3-2. You can only double-down on 10 and 11, you can only split cards twice, and some other silly stuff. Play with a shoe (6 or 8 decks) and you've got all of the normal rules back. If you really want single deck BJ with the normal rules, you will have to go downtown for that (Fremont Street).
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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And by the way, the Las Vegas Strip is NOT in Las Vegas. Most people don't know that. You don't hit Las Vegas until you get downtown. The Strip is located in an unincorporated area of Clark County called "Paradise". Clark County has special laws just for the Strip, which is why you can have an open container while walking outside.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Just thought of one more tip: If you're taking a taxi from the airport to the Strip, don't let the taxi driver rip you off. If he wants to take the freeway, then you are getting ripped off. All you have to do is tell the driver: "Take Paradise". You can look on a map if you'd like, but just trust me, taking Paradise is all you need to know---and the driver will understand that you're telling him not to rip you off.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by smitty195: "Did you get that last $100 I bought?". Make sure they log every penny you spend.
Good Lord Andy; The last time I was at The Meadows during 2K (I had a now-deceased girlfriend who liked to go there because her daughter resided in San Bernardino - and she didn't game beyond a roll of Quarters - and never asked me to "stake" her), $100 was what I budgeted for ALL gaming - I popped a C note on a Blackjack table @ Flamingo, and in essence when it was gone in about 20min, I was gone.
Finally, I think the dozen or so here who know me face to face will concur "I ain't cheap".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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If I ever go to Vegas again, I'll try that. (I think our company is buying several apartment complexes there.)
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Good Lord Andy; The last time I was at The Meadows during 2K (I had a now-deceased girlfriend who liked to go there because her daughter resided in San Beranardino - and she didn't game beyond a roll of Quarters - and never asked me to "stake" her), $100 was what I budgeted for ALL gaming - I popped a C note on a Blackjack table @ Flamingo, and in essence when it was gone in about 20min, I was gone.
Finally, I think the dozen or so here who know me face to face will concur "I ain't cheap". [/QB]
Well, if I were constantly losing at the tables, then yes, that would be a lot to throw away. But I have a "system", and it works perfectly for me. I've told others my system, they've tried it, and it didn't work. But for some reason, it works for me. I always go to Vegas with a bankroll. And it's usually small (between $200 and $500). When I play, the moment I get ahead, MY money goes into my pocket and THEIR money remains on the table. That way, no matter what happens, I haven't lost a penny. I also have a rule that when I reach "x" amount in wins, that's it---I stop---no more gaming. On some trips, I've hit that number in the first hour and then I've had three days to play tourist. I end up going home with everything paid for, plus a little extra in my pocket. I've only gone home on the "minus" side twice in 6+ years, and the grand total is less than $500---so I am way, way ahead overall. The way I look at it, if you're going to play small, then you're going to win small. You can't play $50 at blackjack and expect to walk away with $10,000---it ain't gonna happen.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Thanks, Smitty. I need to learn all these terms like doubling down, and I've seen free websites that list the likely outcomes if you were to "hit" or not (eg two kings - don't hit) - not card counting, just simple probabilities.
My biggest win was a grand total of $32 (!) on roulette - it was my last night i the Sahara before I flew home the following morning, so I just dumped my remaining chip on any number - and it came up! Took the money and went to bed. As I'd only budgeted $40 for the day, it meant I'd spent several hours with "free" drinks and it only cost me $8 - cheaper than a movie ticket.
Must join the player's club though.
Luckily I can avoid the weekend crowds. Just seeing I-15 backed up through my home town is good enough reason not to go up on a Friday or back on a Sunday.
Thanks again.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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It guides you along the way, suggesting what the best move is. If you can learn the basics here, then you will do very well at the table. Don't go into a blackjack game without knowing the basics. Not only will you not do well, but the other plays will be mighty unhappy when you take "their" card (even though it's all random odds anyway, BJ players will tear you apart).
By the way, the Sahara is now closed. I really liked the NASCAR Cafe there, but it has been on its last legs for a few years now, so I'm glad it shut down. They have great plans to reopen it again as a much nicer hotel.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I certainly wouldn't be classed as a "high roller" by the widest stretch of the imagination, but after just two trips to the same casino hotel in Reno I was offered some free midweek nights for my next trip, and after two of them I found myself in a suite.
By my 7th/8th trip I was getting free breakfasts and after that one of the hosts would personally take me to dinner!!
But it's not just in casinos that Americans value customer loyalty. The owner of the bar/diner I go to in Pismo Beach is delighted that a Brit would travel 6,000 miles to go back and see him. Free t-shirts, free baseball caps, free trinkets etc are the norm, and when my bill arrives he's invariably forgotten to charge me for my dessert or my drinks top-ups!
Posts: 395 | From: england | Registered: Sep 2002
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Mr. Williams---That's the way to do it! When you get to know someone in the casino (who has the power to alter your bill), it really pays off. Offer to buy them lunch, and just be really non-pushy and friendly. It really does pay off. I have hosts that I call before my trips to Vegas at Wynn/Encore because they treat me very well. If all else fails and for some reason I can't get a comp'd room, then they will always give me a "casino rate" for a room which is $79. It's well worth it to work the system because they offer it and it's part of the way they do business, so go for it! Steve Wynn is a very shrewd businessman, and he was interviewed by Robin Leach (he is a local Vegas celebrity) about how he is able to be the only hotel on the Strip that is not bank-owned (he paid cash for everything, and he never takes out loans). The interview was really interesting, but one of the things I learned from him talking is this---he does not make any money being in the hotel business. He tells his people to do ANYTHING they have to do to keep the hotel at full occupancy, even if they give away the rooms for free--he doesn't care, just keep the hotel full. Because once people are there, they WILL spend money inside the resort. He said his top two money-makers are: 1) the casino (obviously), and 2) bottle service. For those who don't know what bottle service is, it's something that is absolutely ridiculous and VERY expensive in the night clubs. I'm not a "clubber"---I can't stand that scene at all. Besides, I'm in bed by 11PM every night so it's definitely not for me. But bottle service is where you pay a minimum fee (it usually STARTS at $500 and goes up from there), and you get a reserved table in the nightclub with your own server. The server pushes and pushes you to buy more bottle of booze, so that at the end of the night, your tab is well over $10,000. At a high-end club like at Wynn and Encore, a $10,000 bottle service bill is very average and "eh". People pay much, much more than that. And Steve Wynn figured out a way to market it and keep it going, and this is where he makes a ton of money.
All that to say, you can always bargain for a hotel room. They know that this is not their bread and butter----but you just being there will automatically make them money as you eat, shop, and gamble.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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If I'm not mistaken, Wynn also has some extensive casino ops in Macao, China. And that those far eclipse his Las Vegas operations in the size, glitz and glamour depts. Those nouveau riche young Chinese zillionaires need somewhere to "play out" some of their renminbi, and Macao is the place in the PRC. I know if I was to sidle up to those tables, I'd be back in my non-comped room with my tail between my legs...and I'm an "old China hand" in some ways with multiple trips to the ancient land. (Thread creep, sorry!)
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I really liked the NASCAR Cafe there, but it has been on its last legs for a few years now, so I'm glad it shut down. They have great plans to reopen it again as a much nicer hotel.
