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Sorry I haven't been around much in the past few months but have been meaning to post about the Montana trip I did this summer. I wanted to thank those of you who suggested I visit Butte; I found it a fascinating place! I also quite liked Helena, a very nice state capital. And Whitefish was a fine town, convenient to bus and train. I took buses to and from Whitefish to the other places. I overnighted in Kalispell too, and Missoula, though I did not have a chance to see the latter. The ride around Flathead Lake was quite lovely--nicest public bus ride I ever took! But the bus did break down once, luckily in a bus stop, but still, we were there for some time until a PASSENGER fixed the problem.
Thank you all again for your advice
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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I have ten left: Arkansas, Idaho, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and Hawaii (don't think I'll get there any time soon--no train!). I never got to Baton Rouge when I was in New Orleans, and I've had to cancel Cheyenne and Oklahoma City twice each for various reasons, and Little Rock and Des Moines once each. I am booked for South Dakota (via Minneapolis) next spring (and also hope to get to Mt Rushmore), but we'll see. . . . After Honolulu, Frankfort will be the hardest to get to (without a car)--there isn't any sort of public bus. However, I think some B&Bs would pick me up in Lexington if I got that far, or I could use some sort of limo service.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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As Frank (SBALAX) or Miss Vickie will be quick to affirm, there was a cruiseline that had American officers and sufficient number of seamen and service staff to qualify as "American" in order to sail San Fran-Honolulu and be in compliance of the Jones Act.
They folded.
This is the law that effectively killed the American Merchant Marine and requires us to use foreign flagged vessels to handle our export import cargo - including military cargo.
I think to a great extent the loss of our merchant marine sealift capacity was eroded by the legislation enabling the Marshall Plan which required the exports to Europe under such be handled in US flagged vessels. That gave the maritime unions "carte blanche" to ask and get whatever they wanted from the shipowners.
Finally I trust, Ms. Sojourner, you have noted I follow maritime affairs in view of that they are closely related to those of the industry - the railroad industry that counts - freight.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sojourner-glad to see you back on the forum. Looking forward to more of your travel tales.
Maybe you can tie in your visit to Laramie with Cheyenne Frontier Days - a great event. In summers past, the Denver newspaper sponsored a UP steam powered excursion to it. What better way to get there?!
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Ms. Sojourner, should you include Cheyenne, I'd suggest avoiding a stay at the Plains Hotel, but then you are more receptive to "surprises" than am I, and with your "no fly, no rent" provisions, you may have no alternative.
Ask me, it's a Dive-InnPosts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Good News! Frankfort, Kentucky may be on the table for you after all.
Miller Transportation (of Louisville, KY) doing business as 'Miller Trailways' in April began offering scheduled bus line service to Frankfort, KY.
I just learned of this perhaps two weeks ago from an email group of mostly retired Trailways Bus Drivers that I also follow.
Two buses daily in each direction originate in Lexington and travel westward to Louisville. Looks like at least one of those buses continues on to Fulton (for a NOT recommended wee hours connection to the City of New Orleans) via Evansville, IN.
I think the easiest way to get to them would be via Greyhound from Lexington or Louisville. Perhaps in time they will extend further east from Lexington to Ashland, KY.
Or they might pull out altogether. Bus service is sketchy and unpredictable.
Here is a link to Miller's scheduled service timetables. Frankfort, KY is on table 7051!!!!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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That's great news, David. It always did seem odd to me to have no bus to the state capitol when it was right between two of Kentucky's major cities. But then I remembered it was Kentucky, and what had happened to trains there in the past.
I have to check out the various options. What I'd do is get to Lexington or Louisville somehow by bus, and then could use this Miller Trailways bus to get to Frankfort. I'd likely go back by bus via Lexington to Cincinnati and catch the Cardinal. Lexington and Cincinnati are two cities I'd like to see; not as sure about Louisville, have to look into it. It all sounds like a lot of $$$ for hotels, though.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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I would put in this word for Ashland - Greyhound and Amtrak use the same station and the best hotel in town, the Ashland Plaza, is just a block away.
However, the Greyhound route is operating between Charleston, WV, Columbus, OH, and Detroit, MI. Minus a bus link eastward to Lexington (which Greyhound did offer some years ago), Ashland doesn't do much in terms of getting you to Frankfort.
I would consider the Greyhound Station in Lexington, KY to be a safer place to transfer than Louisville...... though Lexington is a former gas station sized building out on the by-pass with little other than fast food joints close by.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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oops, I made a big mistake in discussing Ashland, David . . . it was Mayville I was thinking of, not Ashland. I will edit my post!!!
And thanks for the tips about the buses in Lexington and Louisville. I never thought there would be a problem in either but I guess I should consider it. Still, I would make sure to come by day. . . . I had assumed both cities had a decent bus station, but I guess not.
I would have to say, it's less and less likely I'll ever get to Frankfort. I'm actually getting kind of disillusioned with my remaining capital visits (other than Honolulu, where I'd go happily if I could afford the cruise!).
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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sojourner: I think you should get full credit towards your "quest" by substituting Lexington for Frankfort. After all, Lexington is the "Horse CAPITAL of the World."
quote:Originally posted by palmland: Sojourner-glad to see you back on the forum. Looking forward to more of your travel tales.
Maybe you can tie in your visit to Laramie with Cheyenne Frontier Days - a great event. In summers past, the Denver newspaper sponsored a UP steam powered excursion to it. What better way to get there?!
***************************** I wasn't sure, but it looks like the Denver to Cheyenne Frontier Days train is an annual event.
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Sojourner - hope you don't give up on your capitals quest. If you are planning a cruise from the west coast, just a short detour from Denver will get you to Laramie. It's a scenic route as I-25 parallels the front range of the Rockies to Cheyenne. Saw this on a travel website, not sure how current it is:
"The Bus from Denver to Cheyenne and Laramie. Greyhound's fleet of buses travels between Denver and all of the major cities of the region, including Cheyenne and Laramie. The bus from Denver to Cheyenne takes about two and a half hours and the bus from Cheyenne to Laramie takes about another two hours. Buses run once or twice a day. Another option is commuter airlines."
Glad to hear the UP special still runs, Richard
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I actually planned Cheyenne twice already too but had to cancel because my trains didn't get me to Denver when planned. I know about the buses; there are also airport shuttles that cost more but have better schedules. And I would of course stay in the Plains Hotel if I go!!!
I also have a friend in Denver who might drive me, and take me to Laramie and Medicine Bow too. That would be three TV shows in one drive! But we'll see about that. . . .
I still think I may be too poor to spend money on a trip like this when, for instance, I could be using the same money for the Canadian before it ceases (if it will), or the Agawa Canyon train, or a Panama Canal cruise! So I have to see.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: And I would of course stay in the Plains Hotel if I go!!!
Ms. Sojourner, as I noted earlier, if you desire to stay in Downtown Cheyenne, as I recall first hand, "there's nothing else".
I have now learned that the Greyhound station is some three miles North of town at a Rodeway Inn (a Choice Hotels brand) on the perimeter of Francis E Warren AFB. I'm certain that any of us around here who have been in service, branch notwithstanding, can envision the environment in which the bus station and that hotel are located.
When you last addressed Cheyenne, I believe you noted a Denver airport "limo" that served Cheyenne at a Holiday Inn immediately South of town on I-80. While a review of that hotel's website shows no mention of a courtesy van, I doubt if a taxicab would "break" you to get Downtown whether to set foot on the steps of the Capitol (or whatever measurtement you have in order to "check it off") or to stay at Plains. Any other major brand chain properties appear to be clustered about the I-80/I-25 interchange, which as I recall is to the West of town.
Finally regarding The Plains Hotel, I think there is enough empirical evidence at this linked (to my review; but from which many others are a click away) Trip Advisor site to establish "it's not just me". However, I respect that there are reviews posted that may make you want to stay there.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Now that Ms. Sojourner has renewed her "Capital Quest of Capitols"; possibly this listing will be of interest:
Alabama; Montgomery Alaska; Juneau Arizona; Phoenix Arkansas; Little Rock 2 California; Sacramento 3 Colorado; Denver 3 Connecticut; Hartford 3 Delaware; Dover Florida; Tallahassee Georgia; Atlanta 3 Hawaii; Honolulu Idaho; Boise Illinois; Springfield 3 Indiana; Indianapolis 2 Iowa; Des Moines Kansas; Topeka 2 Kentucky; Frankfort Louisiana; Baton Rouge Maine; Augusta Maryland; Anapolis Massachusetts; Boston 3 Michigan ; Lansing 3 Minnesota; St Paul 3 (edit) Mississippi; Jackson 3 Missouri; Jefferson City 3 Montana; Helena Nebraska; Lincoln 2 Nevada; Carson City New Hampshire; Concord New Jersey; Trenton 3 New Mexico; Santa Fe 1 New York; Albany 3 North Carolina; Raleigh 3 North Dakota; Bismarck Ohio; Columbus Oklahoma; Oklahoma City 3 Oregon; Salem 3 Pennsylvania; Harrisburg 3 Rhode Island; Providence 3 South Carolina; Columbia 2 South Dakota; Pierre Tennessee; Nashville 1 Texas; Austin 3 Utah; Salt Lake City 2 Vermont; Montpellier Virginia; Richmond 3 Washington; Olympia 3 West Virginia; Charleston 2 Wisconsin; Madison Wyoming; Cheyenne
1) Passenger train service available (agency other than Amtrak) 2) Amtrak passenger train service 3) Amtrak passenger train service available at reasonable hours (subjective)
Summary:
1) Two states 2) Seven states 3) Twenty (edit) states
Finally to Ms. Sojourner, while it is not my place to belittle your quest to visit every state capital city by means of commercial surface transportation; I am astounded at your "spunk", as a retired woman roundly my age, to even attempt. While in this life I have set foot on the ground of all fifty states (my claim for Hawaii is very tenuous; two hours on the ground at PHIK returning from Nam during '68), it "just sort of happened" during my younger days when I was out there riding pre-Amtrak trains - many of which I acknowledge were joyrides.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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GBN - You should have a category 1a and 1b -
The Santa Fe Rail Runner does connect with the national Amtrak system at Albuquerque.
The Music City Star does not interface with the intercity passenger rail network/
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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GBN - Shouldn't St. Paul, MN count at least as a (2)? The Midway Station is listed as being in St. Paul.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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However, should the Empire Builder on its existing schedule start serving St Paul at the SPUD, then the designator would become a 3
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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3456 Minnehaha Ave South is a small long-vacant commercial property in south Minneapolis, with the nearest railroad tracks 2 blocks away -a dead end branch of ex-Milwaukee that probably has at best a weekly freight that never exceeds 15 mph. I would not recommend giving this address to a cab driver and being dropped off with your suitcases at night in this neighborhood. However, the 3rd precinct police station is only 5 blocks north on Minnehaha and they have had more practice rescuing victims than most.
The Amtrak station is at 730 Transfer Road, St. Paul 55114 (my zip code as well). It is well within St. Paul and has access to local public transportation.
SPUD will have a Grand Opening on Dec 8, the first time the full depot has been open since A-day. I expect to be there. Amtrak's tracks and platforms are built, but the actual move is not expected to take place until sometime next year. The restoration cost $243 million.
Central Corridor Light Rail is scheduled to be complete in early 2014. SPUD will be the eastern end of the line. It will pass right by the Capitol Building and on to Minneapolis where it connects to Hiawatha Light Rail (which goes very near 3456 Minnehaha Ave So.).
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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In view of Mr. Twin Star's local knowledge, as well as my own recollection the facility is located on Transfer Road along the Minnesota Transfer RR (that was the MILW's interchange with GN & NP; presumably it continues to be same for SOO-BNSF), I will adjust the compilation to reflect that #7 serves at a "passably reasonable" and 8 serves St Paul at a perfectly reasonable hour.
Now regarding Amtrak serving SPUD, does that remain a "to be determined"?
Simply because a transpotainment center is built does not mean Amtrak will necessarily come. It does not appear likely that Amtrak will move to the Miami Intermodal Center. They never considered returning to a redeveloped St Louis Union Station. did return to Kansas City, yet reluctantly returned to an Albuquerque transportation center. Even a redeveloped Richmond Main Street station sees only a fraction of the trains it could potentially serve; why move when the Amshack to the North of town does OK.
Amtrak at SPUD may well be a victim of such philosophy.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I'm thinking the odds in St. Paul are more favorable than in Miami because trains 7 & 8 pass within site of their intended platform on their everyday route.
The holdup, as I understand it, has to do with reaching a resolution with the freight operator (is it CN or CP?) to install the neccessary switches to access this new platform. An oversight on the part of those planning this renovation, yes, but a resolvable one given the local interest (re: $243 million investment) in returning passenger tran service to SPUD.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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If Amtrak were to return to SPUD, there remains the issue of how would Amtrak serve Minneapolis with something resembling a convenient station. Even though Minneapolis has far surpassed St Paul as the commercial and cultural capital of the Twin Cities, there still remains a rivalry between the two separately incorporated municipalities. Presently the Amtrak station, save for Twin Star Jerry who apparently resides in its immediate vicinity, is equally inconvenient to the "core" of either city. But if Amtrak were to serve one city, St Paul, through a quite convenient location that the city found itself building up around, the other, Minneapolis, could well take note of the "slight". Now with all rail passenger infrastructure completely gone from "core" Minneapolis, the problem would be where to locate a Minneapolis Amtrak station as convenient as possible to the population center?
While I'm sure the average paying passenger from Minneapolis would think little of this "injustice", it is the kind of thing "pols" could make noise about and with adverse impact if Minnesota is ever to consider some kind of locally funded intercity system again (funny how I thought my 1977 ride round trip on The Arrowhead was pretty well populated - and there was indeed a party scene in the Dome-Obs),
Lest we forget wasn't there once a New York City mayor who during the '30's thought it a travesty that he had to go to Newark New Jersey in order to board an airplane. Wasn't it "miraculous" how a facility appeared atop some wetland in the East River (try building there today now that wetlands, known as marshes when I was a kid, are sacred) and bearing the Mayor's name?
Of interest, that facility is identified by the International Civil Aviation Organization as KLGA.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Gil, as a former resident of Corona, Queens, just a stone's throw from LaGuardia, I need to point out that you should substitute Flushing Bay/Bowery Bay for East River in your posting. Also, the airport would never have been built without the "push" from American Airlines, which was awarded the entire "city" side of the airport's hangars for its impetus.
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Likely so, Mike; but "Little Flower" sure knew how to grab the headlines.
Stand corrected on the point regarding Flushing Bay. I had always thought the body of water known as the East River extended as far East as College Point, or otherwise where the Whitestone Bridge X's. However, review of a map shows that I am mistaken.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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