posted
So as not to continue hijacking Mr. Norman's Salt Lake City trip report, I'll start a new thread regarding the passenger trains which Southern was operating into the Amtrak era..... primarily to recount my personal experiences and observations.
For a starting point, copied here is Mr. Harris' post regarding his observations of the Southern trains which appeared in Mr. Normans' thread -
----------------------------------------------- Living in the DC area in the early 70's I can say this about the Southern's post Amtrak service:
The Crescent pulled out of DC with 4 green painted E units on the front, and usually somewhere between 15 and 20 streamlined cars. On peak travel days it ran it two sections with 3 E units on the front.
The number 2 train ran with streamlined coaches and some sort of meal serivce (I never rode it). It pulled out of DC with 4 to 6 streamlined cars behind 4 passenger service equipped F units. After leaving Alexandria it paused and had a lengthy string of piggybacks tacked on for the rest of the trip.
The remaining train pulled out of DC with 1 F unit and 1 non-streamlined coach. After leaving Alexandria it paused and had about 3 freight units tacked on the front and a long string of piggybacks tacked on the rear. At Lynchburg the lights in the coach were turned off, all passenger, very few the one time I rode it, put off and the train continued with the coach, I was told to Salisbury NC. -------------------------------------------------
I am not certain whether the coach and 1 FP-7 for the Lynchburg train (#'s 7 & 8) continued south of Lynchburg. I have seen photos of this train facing south at the Lynchburg station with just the single diesel and one coach. My understanding was that it operated solo between Lynchburg and the now abandoned yard/division crew change point at Monroe where the passenger train was sandwiched by the freight units up front and a freight train behind.
It is certainly possible that for a time the train continued all the way to and from the classification yard at Spencer, NC adjacent to the shops and just north of Salisbury.
The 'Piedmont' trains 5 & 6 operated on a day schedule between Washington and Atlanta from early 1971 until June 1975 when it was cut back to Washington - Charlotte. I rode this train from Salisbury to Washington in July 1975. The consist that day was four FP-7 diesels, baggage car, a grill/coach, (exactly what that implies.... front half of the car had a small lounge selling chips, drinks, and sandwiches, back half had 24 coach seats), and three additional coaches. There was no freight on the train when it arrived northbound in Salisbury but a string of piggyback cars bound for Potomac Yard in Alexandria, VA was tacked on behind us at Pomona Yard in Greensboro, NC.
The Southern Crescent trains #1 & 2. I had two or three rides on this train under Southern auspices. My last ride one was southbound from Washington to Atlanta in June 1978.
On that night, as Mr. Harris notes, the Southern Crescent operated in two sections. I was riding coach in the first section. We departed Washington with 10 cars behind 4 E-8's. Specifically, we had the baggage car, 7 coaches, a grill coach (likely the same one I had encountered three years earlier on the Piedmont), and a dining car.
The second section had another 10 cars behind 2 E-8's. Those were 5 sleepers, a diner, a sleeper/lounge car, and 3 additional sleepers.
Reason for this two sections was a convention charter heading to Greensboro, NC. In Greensboro our first section arrived shortly before 2:00am and pulled to a stop on what was likely track 1..... the southbound main.
Five minutes later, #2, the northbound Southern Crescent arrived across the platform from us on what I imagine was track 2.... the northbound main.
Five minutes later the second section of #1 arrived. It paused on the main track briefley to cut off the rear four cars. Then, the 2 E-8's, 5 sleepers, and the diner eased into the house track between our train and the REA Building.... this is the area which is now a transfer station for Greensboro city buses.
Once clear of the switch, a yard engine shoved the sleeper/lounge and 3 remaining sleepers from the second section onto the end of our train. The northbound Crescent departed and about 5 minutes later we departed on to Atlanta as a single 14 car train with, as the Gods intended, sleepers rear..
Quite a night for a young railfan ----- and something that few people my age (51) likely ever witnessed because running passenger trains in this way was pretty much over by 1978.
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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One memory I have of SRY service was booking the Master Room in 'Crescent Moon' circa 1976. That was indeed a rail experience.
I can also recall my first SRY experience aboard The Crescent during August 1962. What I best recall is how a seven car train leaving Atlanta Terminal Station grew to a sixteen car train by the time it reached Wash. The train added Sleepers at Greenville, Charlotte, and Coaches plus Sleepers at Greensboro. Then at Wash it dropped the Coaches and several Sleepers, than picked cars for New York from the SAL train that is the namesake for the gentleman here who resides in Camden SC.
In closing, there was also a "dinner in the diner" opportunity in the Washington area, that was well used by local fans. This was Washington-Alexandria on the Southern Crescent post Amtrak (circa 1976). During that time Southern did not join but agreed to cooperate with Amtrak. Their diner originated in Washington along with sevaral coaches and sleepers. You could board and be seated in the diner as soon as the equipment was spotted in the station. You usually were finished with dinner about the time you were crossing over the Potomac River.
Posts: 9980 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
It must of been a great era to ride NC passenger trains, David. In the other post, I was intrigued by your mentioning of the tri-weekly remnant of the old Asheville Special. I wish they still had some sort of passenger train into Asheville.
posted
For ready reference, here is the material first posted to the UTA topic--
Ouch, Mr. Palmland, that link from which the point is labeled fiction, is indeed just that.
But I'm pleased to see that all will know that the oil shale was known of long before I took Geo 101 as my 'University Core' Natural Science course during 1962. Dr. Wahl, as well as your 'Apostles' - grad TA's for 'Workshops', you were on mark during your lectures.
Richard, to further address your immediate point, intercity passenger trains operated for a railroad's account post A-Day were (to the best of my memory) as follows:
Chi-Rock Island CRI&P Quad City Rocket
Chi-Quincy BN not named
Chi-Clinton C&NW
Chi-Savanna MILW
All other than RI were there because some Judge held RPSA 70 had no jurisdiction over intRAstate routes. Chi-RI continued under terms of that Act; RI didn't join up; some say they couldn't cough up the entry fee but I hold that they had success, like SRY noted below, in whacking trains subsaequent to the CY 1969 measuring period. 'None of the above' lasted very long into the Amtrak era.
Den-Ogden; Rio Grande chose not to join up and continued to operate a 'very classy' Rio Grande Zephyr to SLC and a taxicab beyond to Ogden for an Amtrak connection. 'Some kind of arrangement' was struck between Amtrak and D&RGW during 1983 resulting in the California Zephyr being rerouted away from the UP Overland Route and the D&RGW able to exit passenger service for their own account.
Addendum: Oversight prompted by Mr. Palmland's following post.
SRY Southern Crescent: The SRY had been quite successful in reducing their passenger train mileage subsequent to the CY 1969 measujring period and as a result would not get the 'bang for the buck' benefit that other roads would enjoy. As an aside, they ran a 'classy' operation until 1983 when they joined Amtrak under 'undisclosed' terms.
The Montrealer was a 'bring back'.
Posts: 9980 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Further material that was originally posted to the UTA topic regarding the Georgia RR--
As a 'veteran' of a Georgia RR 'mixto' Atlanta (yards)- Stone Mountain ride, the Coach was on the head, vice rear.
Mr. Palmland is 'indirectly' correct with his point regarding 'tax break for passenger service'. The charter for the Georgia RR called for just that; tax breaks and passenger service, and into the 'Family Lines' era, such was deemed to be 'worth it' for the Georgia to remain a stand alone entity. However, the CSX era decided 'enough of that' and simply dissolved the charters of most if not all of the predecessor roads.
Posts: 9980 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
David, while I was able to ride many of the Southern trains in the 60's, by the Amtrak era in the 70's I was starting a new job and new family. So my recollections then are few.
I do remember visiting a relative in suburban Washington. We went over to Burke Station to see the Southern Crescent. It was an impressive sight as those E's accelerated down that double track railroad. What was significant was the lead unit was flying green flags, indicating a second section was operating that day.
I also remember seeing those engines idling at Ivy City in Washington when I was riding a connection to a weekly commute on the George Washington to Huntington, WV. They were spotless with the Southern Crescent lettering on their flanks. The Southern knew how to operate a first class train, even if they were a bit sneaky in taking off the secondary trains in the 60's.
Best Southern memory - in the 60's occupying a roomette on the Pelican from Washington to Chattanooga and a connection to L&N's Georgian. Great food and cold beer in that heayweight diner were memorable on the trek through rural eastern Virginia and Tennessee.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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