posted
I've been following a thread the last couple of days at the Amtrak Unlimited forum where reliable sources are reporting that Amtrak will announce major changes to the AGR program on August 31st or shortly thereafter.
These changes are expected to be effective in January 2016.
Expected changes include a new affinity credit card issued by someone other than Chase.
Possibly a new structure for earning points.
Elimination of the three redemption zones and instead linking the amount of points required more closely to the regular fare. This could benefit corridor riders and perhaps those booking relatively short overnight trips (ie: Chicago-Washington) which are currently 2-zone redemptions.
Or it could just mean higher redemptions for all.
What happens to existing points or how long AGR members will be allowed to book trips under the old redemption rules are anyone's guess for the moment.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'm back from the lands of the DB and OBB, where I don't think either system has a rewards plan.
With 16134 of those things around, and if I don't use Auto Train on my '16 Florida trip, me and they part company.
Personally, I could care less what Amtrak does with the plan, or for that matter what United does with theirs (and to Jet Blue, who I flew to JFK during May, need I be bombarded with "you are not in our True Blue plan; come on and sign up").
Now I wish Amtrak would establish a means to donate Guest Reward points much as has United, where I "clean 'em out" to one of their charitable beneficiaries each year (last year was "Flights for Vets").
For hotels, I belong to IHG (Holiday Inn et al), Marriott, Hilton, Best Western, and Hyatt. Since there no "hoops to jump through" with any of 'em, i.e. either a room is open or it is not, I do use those.
Now where I think the airlines were in the wrong, was within a year of them all starting their plans, they decreed (and in a dereg world, they have the right to do so) that the points earned belong to the traveler regardless of who was ultimately paying the fare. I think to this day, that the party paying for the travel, i.e. the boss, should have ownership of those points to be used for other employee travel. The airlines, and so everyone else, saw it differently.
But then, there is really an obsession over the things. I understand some will simply take a joyride with no purpose other than to qualify for another "precious metal" level. I can recall last February, on my badly delayed United flight to Miami, there was a fellow griping rather audibly about "what a f!@#ed outfit United has become, Smiszek (UA CEO) thinks all there was to merging airlines was painting planes". I said to him "if they are so terrible, why do you fly 'em?", "Two million miles is why".
Nothing more was said; rant is over.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Devaluation is the trend these days. Matching points to regular fare is common with airlines these days too.
Delta is my airline of choice, simply because their miles don't expire unlike United and others. I don't fly enough to accrue much but a "free" flight every couple of years doesn't hurt. I also have an IHG credit card which got me a "free" room at the Palazzo in Vegas last year, not even spend-related but a once-yearly free night offer they run, normal retail $250+.
Sites like The Points Guy help you maximize your earnings and spends. Some are quite convoluted and require a bit of work, but the rewards can be substantial. I know somebody who has something like 30 credit cards, not a big earner or spender, uses the cards carefully for specific purchases, does transfers, has a big spreadsheet to track everything, but snags long haul first class flights every year for free, along with numerous hotel nights and so on.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Why is a company which bleeds red ink even having a loyalty program which causes them to bleed more ink?
That question should have been asked of the airlines during the late Depression.
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by PullmanCo: Let's be blunt.
Why is a company which bleeds red ink even having a loyalty program which causes them to bleed more ink?
That question should have been asked of the airlines during the late Depression.
Remember, the airlines were hugely subsidized up until the 1950's or 1960's at least. Even since then there were subsidies to the regional airlines and still today for the "essential" air services to smaller cities. Also worth mentioning airports in those earlier days were built for many reasons, and post WW2 there were a lot of airports that were built for military reasons that were turned over to civilian use, plus the many pilots that were trained at the expense of the military.
Airlines that complain about subsidies to Amtrak or construction of high speed lines are people living in glass houses throwing stones.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I'm asking why shareholders let airlines continue loyalty programs during the 2007-2011 Recession.
In addition, I'm asking why Amtrak is allowed to have a loyalty program, when it bleeds red ink.
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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AGR is just one of the many mysteries about Amtrak operations. I suspect if the OIG were to check, the amount of money Amtrak gets back from Chase is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of lost revenue for AGR riders. And of course Amtrak, unlike the airlines, has no rail competition that is the driving force behind loyalty programs.
Case in point, I have a November trip planned with 3 segments from Northern CA to New Orleans that would generate close to $2000 revenue for the bedroom. For us, it's a relative freebie at 40,000 points.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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That question should have been asked of the airlines during the late Depression.
PullmanCo, I think the problem with your time horizon lies in the fact that you are referring to the great "recession" as the great "depression."
Most sentient Americans, especially those of a certain age, still think of the 1930's when they hear the term "depression," especially if it's capitalized!
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Case in point, I have a November trip planned with 3 segments from Northern CA to New Orleans that would generate close to $2000 revenue for the bedroom. For us, it's a relative freebie at 40,000 points.
A question that needs to be asked: How many of these "points" trips would happen at all if the program did not exist? I would suspect that many are warming seats/berths that would otherwise be empty. That being the case there is very little in the way of real costs to providing the service, and it does provide advertising.
Much the same is true for the airline programs and these do help pull trips off competition. Same may well be true for Amtrak in the Northeast. There may be people in trains that would have considered flying if not the points.
By the way, having just checked up on a Pensacola or Mobile to Memphis trip, the choices are: Fly for something in the range of $400 with a change in Atlanta or somewhere more rediculous, about 6 hours end to end.
Greyhound 15 plus hours, about $140, leaving from Pensacola at either 10:45 at night or around 4:30 in the morning with at least 2 changes. It would be possible to go to New Orleans and get the CNO, but that required 4 to 6 hours (don't really remember) sitting in New Orleans. The 4:30 could be used to make the bus shown in Amtrak timetable that leaves Mobile at 7:00 and meets up with the CNO in Jackson MS, with a long wait there. The solution, rent car one way, about $280 but leave when I want to and take about 7:30 with a meal stop.
(I can fly Southwest Oakland CA to Memphis TN for about $500.)
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr Harris, to address your points; I'd like to think that the airlines have been in this travel reward management game long enough to know just how full a flight would be without and reward seats are accordingly offered.
Problem is that several discussion sites have suggested is Amtrak so sophisticated?
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I would have to see much more evidence to suggest that Amtrak would be so sophisticated.
Most everything seems to catch Amtrak by surprise. #8 averages a 3 hour late arrival into Chicago for 90 consecutive days and yet customer service seems surprised when #8 arrives 3 hours late on the 91st day!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I got my letter today from Chase. No more Amtrak Guest Rewards Credit Card after September 30, 2015.
I called and declined the card the were going to replace it with -- a Chase Freedom Visa Card.
It will be interesting to see who Amtrak finds to fill this void.
We are off on a short (9 night) Pacific Coastal Cruise that starts with an overnight in San Francisco tomorrow night. This will be mostly R&R after a very busy Spring and Summer.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I just bought a sleeper ticket for a trip in early January costing $298. Using the new rules in Amtrak's Points Estimator tool, I will earn 596 AGR points (2 points for every $ spent). Yippee!
If I purchase a Business Class seat, I get 2.5 points for every $ spent and an Acela First Class ticket earns 3 points for every $ spent. But purchasing a sleeper ticket only earns 2 points for every $ spent. There doesn't seem to be much reward for spending the extra dollars on the trip. I could have purchased a coach ticket for $92 or a flight for $170. Instead I chose to upgrade to sleeper class on Amtrak, but Amtrak isn't upgrading my points in return.
I'm not someone who travels for the points, but there are plenty of people who do factor in the points dividend when traveling and Amtrak seems to be deflating the value of the sleeper upgrade with the new plan. Upgrading to sleeper should at least earn 2.5 points for every $ spent. Doesn't it seem rather foolish to disincentivize the value of a sleeper upgrade?
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Would anyone here care to bet this is the opening gambit in eliminating sleepers from the Amtrak fleet in the next decade or so?
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Messrs. Pullman and Vincent, if Amtrak has expectation that they can fill the existing and ordered fleet of Sleepers with "pays", then why offer 'em to the "freebie" segment?
Lest we forget "Back in those days of Rail Sales", that reduced Amtrak Coach fares below the Pooch, Sleeper was never offered.
Reiterating my earlier May rant, While I personally could care less about any rail or air reward plans, as the airlines, and now Amtrak following suit, have simply imposed too many hoops for me to jump through, to make them of any value. I belong to both the United and Amtrak plans (and trashed the various JetBlue e-mails to join theirs on the strength of an RT flight last May) simply because it expedites the booking process. Wounded Warriors got my 20K United points racked up this year; I wish Amtrak would designate some charities to receive theirs, as my 16K some would be promptly gone.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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