posted
We have many members here who regularly travel overseas and no doubt use rail in the course of their travels, my recent travels have been to Austria mainly to attend concerts at the Salzburg Festival, but on each year I've been over, I have taken day rail trips, for having to "break camp" daily to move on is simply something with me that belongs to a past life.
Regarding the OBB, or Austria's State owned system, where I have visited in each of the three past summers. As noted, I have made day trips from Salzburg as well as to/from Munich as there are no overseas flights into the former.
Austria only represents to have Higher Speed rail as they have not built any HSR system from the ground up, such as found in Spain, France, and Germany, but they have continually made incremental improvements to their system that hosts both freight (if you call those jokes of a train such) and passenger. In my rides, I have observed 125mph speeds. An example of an incremental improvement is a cut and cover tunnel approaching Vienna (Vienna is on a plain and "not exactly" resembling "The Sound of Music" on-location scenes) which eliminated a backup move into the main Vienna station from Vienna West. Schedules have been reduced by some 30 minutes.
The OBB premium Rail Jet is largely open seating in both classes. The few First Class compartments that they label "Business Class" are quite "luxo". The "Euro City" sets that are also used internationally throughout Germany as well (Rail Jet is only used for connections such as Munich), are passably "luxo" (only ridden EC in Second Class).
Regarding stations, many of the OBB former stations have been "decommissioned". The Vienna Hbf resembles more an airport concourse than anything else. Every conceivable space has a concession squeezed into it. The Salzburg Hbf retains its original façade dating back to Franz Joseph's time (considering Salzburg was a WWII military target, surprised it survived), but otherwise has an airport concourse beneath the tracks.
The travesty to me has been at St. Anton am Arlberg. From the photos linked, "before and after" is too much to bear. Fortunately, the structure survived and is now part of a hotel.
So far as on-board Food and Beverage goes, I have only had wine. The Gruner Veltliner varietal, Austria's own, served by OBB's "Contracted out" to a large catering concern, is far superior than the generic "Red, White, or Rose" offered by Amtrak. Wonder why I've taken to "BYOB" in Sleeper on Amtrak?
Regarding ticketing, I've ordered DB on-line tickets (Second Class: any train Munich Ost-Salzburg) without incident. One year, I forgot to print my tickets - and here comes the Conductor (English proficiency is not a requisite to be such). I didn't know what to say and with only €85 on me and a week trip ahead, I didn't feel like paying a cash fare. But an Irish lass to my rescue and she said "is it on your phone?". It was and a "grunt and a nod" from the Conductor. Girl, you made my day!!
Timekeeping, while not not quite of the "Swiss Watch" genre, it's a mite bit better than Amtrak. But considering the terrain away from Vienna, which is on a flat plain, they do pretty well. The arrival board hardly looks like that of Amtrak - and may I say, all too often, an airline's.
May the discussion move forth.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Good topic, GBN. I'm spending a lot of time looking at european rail websites now and it will be fun to compare the trip this summer with previous ones and our Amtrak experiences. We should have a good sample from our trip of local, regional, HSR, and even narrow gauge and rack railroads to compare.
We've extended our trip a few days to include France so will be in Europe June 18-July 7. I forgot the dates of your trip?
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Six nights in Salzburg; three concerts. For day trips, I still want to see and ride the Wiener Riesenrad (Ferris Wheel) of Orson Welles ("The Third Man") fame. I'd also like to see Berchtesgaden simply "because it's there" (day tours available from Salzburg). I'd still like to go back to St. Anton am Arlberg, simply to see the former "Bahnhof"(they realigned the tracks through town during 2K for one sporting event or the other), but that is a €185 (RailJet First Class) ride from Salzburg and back.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Richard, we'll sample most everything. It's hard to believe that Italy has competing HSR operators on the same routes. We'll try to do both - there is the government rr, Trenitalia , and the other is a private operation. Italio. Switzerland should be the most interesting with its narrow gauge system and mountain railroads. And probably the fastest is the Lyria to Paris. All will be a far cry from 'my train', the Palmetto.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Of course, the State operator serves the Main Vienna station (Hbf) while the private serves Vienna West. Sorta like the "underclass" airlines over here that only serve secondary airports.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Aug 15 to Aug 22, Mr. Palmland.
Six nights in Salzburg; three concerts. For day trips, I still want to see and ride the Wiener Riesenrad (Ferris Wheel) of Orson Welles ("The Third Man") fame. I'd also like to see Berchtesgaden simply "because it's there" (day tours available from Salzburg). I'd still like to go back to St. Anton am Arlberg, simply to see the former "Bahnhof"(they realigned the tracks through town during 2K for one sporting event or the other), but that is a €185 (RailJet First Class) ride from Salzburg and back.
**************************** Mr. Norman: Will you get a chance to travel to Eisenstadt and the Esterhazy palace? I always wanted to do that, and who knows, get a chance to say hello to Papa Haydn!
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Railway Gazette has an article suggesting European Sleepers are becoming analogous with US passenger trains during the '60's. The Austrian initiative noted earlier is like a "put on a happy face" much like the B&O and the CN did when all others were looking for the exits.
Fair Use:
Passenger night trains in Europe: the end of the line? looks in detail at the financial, economic, social and environmental viability of night train services, which have been cut back significantly in recent years. It considers the reasons behind decisions to operate them, the scope to respond to future challenges including deregulation of the coach market, and the case for subsidy.
While the report says that neither the European Commission nor many EU member states see the retention of night trains as a specific objective, a number of measures could be considered to support their future operation
The entire report (English, 228 p, 6.6mb) is linked at the article.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Good article, GBN. Thanks. Mr Moorman might use some of this for LD train support with congress. I view this as a mostly positive report rather than the 'end of the line':
"The report says that while night train services have declined, they still contribute to the mobility needs of European citizens. Although ‘it seems unlikely that the night train sector will grow beyond a small niche’, the authors say that their suggested measures may help ensure their survival."
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Just for fun, I've "decided" to make a side trip from Salzburg to Rome on a NightJet EN295 that leaves Salzburg 2200h and arrives 0925 next day.
While the one way fare of €139,00 is cheap enough (by air according to a quick Orbitz peek is €235), that is one Berth in a three Berth Cabin (higher than Couchette). Despite all the NightJet propaganda, that is the highest accommodation that can be booked on the web.
Where are all the Single Deluxe Rooms they talk about - at least on that route? They do, however, appear to be offered on the web for a Bregenz-Vienna line, or otherwise the entire E-W width of Austria
No business traveler, will put up with that, or for that matter, certainly when compared with a backpacking millennial, will this single affluent traveler.
The railroad and Wagon-Lit "Orient Express" is gone. Away from flashy brochures and a nice livery that puts lipstick on the pig, it is simply an Econosnooze product - again on this Salzburg-Rome route.
Europeans, including business travelers, were once upon a time and I'd say even into the '80's, willing to have a broom closet hotel room featuring a walk down the hall to the "WC". I'd guess Today they expect the same amenities as does a Stateside traveler.
All told, I think the OBB managers had a bit too much Gruner Veltliner (try it Mr. Palmland) when they finalized this business plan. European Sleepers will still be around so long as there are young people backpacking over there, but to them the Sleeper is simply saving €€€ over a hotel.
If I take a day trip and I see a NightJet car en route, great. Otherwise, my snooze at Salzburg's Crowne Plaza comes first.
Finally, this topic is titled Euro Rail v. Amtrak. If anyone thinks that Amtrak should be pursuing this Econosnooze market (I don't), I'd consider it fair game to be discussed here.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
We're back after six weeks of cruising and two nights in London and three in Madrid.
Trains included Flam to Myrdal to Voss in Norway and The Gatwick Express from Victoria to Gatwick in the UK. We also used the Metro in Madrid on several occasions.
Air Travel included United domestically, easyJet (Their spelling.) from Gatwick to Madrid and Lufthansa from Madrid to Munich to Denver.
All in all a fantastic adventure.
Frank in sunny and warming SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Not that I'm thinking of an overnight trip anywhere when I go over Aug 15-23 this year (day trip to Vienna I mentioned earlier), just to "have a few" at the Salzburg Crowne Plaza bar with Bartender Dieter (he's been with the hotel "forever"), who introduced me to the Gruner Veltliner varietal last year, attend the three concerts that have tapped me out €525,00, and to rack out in my room each night is what I want.
I took a "Eurailathon" (4000mi 14 days) back in '71 when, I was age 29. During '90 at age 48 (two other trips, '76 and '79, in between to visit my Sister in London), I took a trip simply using rail to get around; Frankfurt/Main-Berlin-Paris-Madrid-Sevilla-Barcelona-Montpelier-Paris-Frankfurt/Main. The trip was to visit friends in both Berlin and Sevilla, and at that time, the train was the most economical way to get about. Back then, the "cartel" controlled air fares, but if I were to make same trip Today, with easy.Jet and Ryanair dictating internal fares, I'd just fly. On that trip, overnighting in Paris, I can recall looking in a mirror and saying "Why, WHY, the hell am I doing this?
It took me 24 years to '14 to "shake it off", and when fortunes permitied me to fly Business Class, I decided to give it a try again staying at one "Four (not Five) Star" hotel for the entire trip. I've completed three trips since, and as noted above, "going again" this year.
Finally in case the above article is paywalled, this one should be "free and clear":
posted
GBN, glad you're back in European travel mode. Call Rail Europe if you're still thinking of a Rome trip this year. It's tough to talk to someone, but when I did connect they were helpful. Perhaps they can tell you why a single room wasn't available. I'm too old (and Mary wouln't approve) of a 6 berth room with others.
I'm an unasshamed point chaser and on our trip, thanks to Marriott rewards, we'll have some nice rooms in Venice (Autograph brand), and Lucerne and Paris (Renaissance brand). Other than that, we go for the Rick Steves style - modest, good location, with interesting owners.
If this trip goes well and we're still in good health next year, it might be worthwhile to endure the new low cost carrier, Norwegian Air that offers RT to most of Europe for hundreds, not thousands. Fortunately this year, AA points will do the job.
It'll be interesting to compare notes on our rail experiences on the forum later this summer. I suspect the comparison with Amtrak will not be favorable, except it's hard to beat our western LD trains for scenery and accomdations. Maybe service will eventually become consistently good.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Mr. Palmland, note that "decided" is in quotations.
My '90 trip. which was not to be a "Eurailathon", simply cured me of touring. Today I'm too old for such; it will be six nights in one hotel and one in United Polaris Business Class. The only rail travel I'm committed to make is Munich-Salzburg. There will be three days of no concerts; the day trip I'm thinking of is to Vienna via the Southern route. There is a change of trains at Loeben, but there will be a ride over Semmering Pass (June TRAINS). I still want to ride the Riesenrad featured in "The Third Man". Return would be direct via Linz.
Here's hoping we both enjoy our junkets.
Points? I too use hotel points. I'm in five "majors" plans (soon to be four when Starwood and Marriott merge theirs), and use 'em as soon as I have enough for a stay.
I use Bank of America for a $100 Penney's gift card each year. Capitol One I have always split my points between the Cleveland and Detroit Symphony Orchestras, but this year it seems that their link through Network For Good is down. So I took a $100 Ruth's Chris gift card, which I plan to use June 10, along with $6.26 "Cash Back". I will give a check splitting the amount to each orchestra ($53.13)
It is United's Mileage + which I can't be bothered. Who says I want to "fly on a Blue Moon, or on Easter Sunday five years from now? I figure Fisher House (Veterans welfare) can worry about the hoops so their clients can put them to good use.
I'm in Guest Rewards and have about 17K of them. At such time they hook up with a charity, that's where they will go. I seem to have one Amtrak trip a year (Auto Train), so I won't be looking at a "use 'em or lose 'em" situation.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think you need a tutor with Mileage Plus. We have had some wonderful trips using our miles. The key is to keep scrolling down. We almost always find something with the Partner Carriers for far less than using United -- and almost always within a day or two of when we want to travel. A good example is our recent flight MAD-MUC-DEN-LAX-SBA. 70,000 miles for Business Class on Lufthansa which was far better than First/Business on any U.S. carrier. (Yes, we were in Coach from Denver on but, by that point, it was bearable.) Being in Chicagoland you should be able to do VERY well.
One of the more exotic routings I'm interested in is Ethiopian (787) from LAX to Dublin and on to almost anywhere in Europe. Yes, it involves a long layover in DUB but there are worse things in life. Think Irish Coffee. We had two on this trip and I really liked that they acknowledged that it had originated at Foynes, Ireland and NOT at the Buena Vista in SFO.
Marriott and Starwood are already merged. We stayed at a Sheraton at MIA before starting the latest trip. It wasn't up to Marriott standards but we did get an upgrade and access to the Lounge. Again, not up to Marriott standards but we had booked on Hotels.com and were paying very little. Norm is somehow "Marriott Platinum for Life" because of all the nights he spent in Marriott properties when both Continental and Marriott were in "difficult" situations.
Getting back to trains. The two in Norway were both fine although crowded. Lots of cruise ship passengers especially from Flam to Myrdal. Not so much from Myrdal to Voss. Seating was basic but the views were incredible. We had a nice lunch at a hotel in Voss and then went by coach back to the ship in Flam.
In London we had a small problem trying to book our Gatwick Express trip online. It would not accept a "foreign" credit card. If I had booked from the USA there would have been no problem but since I was trying to book from a point less than 1/4 mile from the train using a US based credit card it wouldn't accept it.
We ended up having to book "in person" (The line for the machines was WAY too long.) and almost missed the train because at the last minute they changed the platform. I learned some very colourful language from the agents as they tried to get us all over to the correct platform.
When we arrived at Gatwick and had to transfer to the North Terminal where easyJet flies we had the challenge of following the "Directive Signage" to the tram.(Think Orlando or Tampa.) We eventually found ourselves in the right area and were able to board fairly quickly. They were offering £250 to take the next flight (The next day but they would pay for hotels and meals.) but we said no. As it was, we left with one empty seat. The gate agents couldn't figure out why.
Just a quick note about European "Economy" carriers like easyJet and RyanAir. Yes, if you book early the flights are VERY cheap. Factor in, though, extra charges. We chose to select seats and pay for 1 bag each. That was about £20.00. On board they sell an amazing variety of food and snacks and drinks. And duty free. They accept cash (£ and Euro) and credit/debit cards. They work VERY hard.
Our next adventure will take us from Vancouver to Yokohama and then on to Shanghai and Beijing. That's not until October unless something wonderful comes up before.
Frank in dark and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Frank, I'm just not the globetrotter you both are. I think the only reason I'm making an overseas journey this year is account the $1735 "I got lucky" voucher I had from United, and I had declined to go visit my Niece in Sydney. I was advised by one in the know it takes about ten days to work through the jet lag, and ten days was what I had in mind. My Sister went during March, but she was there a month and stayed with them - and two hyper urchins. Houseguesting is something I simply don't do anymore (during college and Service of course; it's what young people do).
Now regarding my reward points, they are used. The United points I think I can consider used, as Fisher House has clients that are prepared to plan their journey "on the Blue Moon" whereas I'm not. As far as my Amtrak points, hopefully they will team up with a charity so those too will have a home.
But when I hear a "pointchasing" friend's "war stories" of "red eye" flights and itineraries such as ORD-MSN-SUX-DEN/DEN-RNO, all I can think is "enjoy". I can also think of an incident occurring during '09. This was going PBI-ORD on an American MD-80. I had carefully selected my seat aft so as to have good flightseeing. The day was crystal clear. Would you believe it, some gal had the NERVE to ask an Attendant would I move to another seat that only had a view of #2. I said no and was never directed to do so. But this lady in the Middle Seat was pouting at me, but I didn't care because the flightseeing was great all the way. Then in some of the few words we had, I learned they were flying on POINTS. "Grrr girl, you take what you get".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I wasn’t aware of this reconfiguration when I booked a family trip to Australia and Indonesia on the United Airlines website last summer. I was seduced by the ticket price, $1,206 each, and the 21,393 frequent flier miles I thought we would accrue.
When I got home, I found the proverbial lump of coal in my United Mileage Plus account stocking: a paltry 2,120 miles earned for a six-flight trip that took us from Redmond, Ore., to Sydney, Australia, via San Francisco, with a side trip to and from Denpasar, Indonesia. I called United, assuming that they’d somehow left a zero off my mileage reward. “No, sir, 2,120 miles appears to be the correct reward for the trip,” the polite young woman who double-checked my flight activity said..
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
This is an interesting read but really not "news" at this point. I think most people who fly a lot -- or even just occasionally -- are aware of the changes which began in 2015.
Personally, we don't count on flights for most of our miles. We charge virtually everything on our United Mileage Plus Explorer cards. It's amazing how quickly the miles build up. I currently have a balance of over 600,000 miles and Norm had over 300,000 until we just used 115,000 (57,500 each) for Business Class from Madrid to Santa Barbara in April. (MAD-MUC on Lufthansa and MUC-ORD and ORD-LAX-SBA on United.)
It's all part of the game. BTW, "The Points Guy" is a good resource for finding the best ways to earn/use Airline and Hotel miles/points.
Frank in sunny and warming SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
One fault I find in Amtrak Guest Rewards is the lack of bonus points awarded for traveling in Sleeper Class. Business Class earns a 25% bonus and Acela First Class gets a 50% bonus but there isn't any bonus given to Sleeper fares. Coach and Sleeper tickets both earn 2 points for every dollar spent.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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