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Author Topic: Tester bill to allow daily LD trains
yukon11
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Sen. Jon Tester, of Montana, has introduced a bill to allow furloughed Amtrak workers to return to work and allow LD Amtrak trains to return to daily schedules.

https://is.gd/YePuKe

The 166 million doesn't seem like a lot, compared to the overall 4.8 billion that Amtrak has requested.

More on Amtrak spending in the Northeast Corridor:

https://is.gd/b4LK7v

Richard

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Gilbert B Norman
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Richard, the piece from Wired must be considered "dated" - published during 2016.

The Tester bill does nothing more than grab headlines and get the advocacy community all excited. It further assures it is dead on arrival. Sen. Tester should have used his "points" to get those provisions buried in a Spending Bill.

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George Harris
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As to the Northeast Corridor, it is a sinkhole for money. It is truly needed, but a lot could be done differently. As it is, about all that can be squeezed out of the current alignment has been. Until there is serious money put into changes that eliminate constraints, through Baltimore being one example, an almost all the New Haven west of New Haven all you could gain is a minute or two here and there.

Speaking of alignment, I hear from time to time talk about Nashville to Atlanta as a mini-corridor on the order of Chicago to Detroit. Folks, look at a map. Chicago to Detroit, and Chicago to St. Louis are both relatively straight lines. Nashville to Atlanta is anything but. With the interstates, this can be driven in 4 hours. The best train time ever was 6 hours thanks to curves and a Nashville to Chattanooga line 20 miles longer than the highway in order to avoid a four mile tunnel, (nigh impossible in the 1850'2 when the line was built). It is highly unlikely that anything less than 8 hours would be practical, and that unlikely so due to heavy freight volume on this line.

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yukon11
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I've read that the Nashville to Atlanta proposal would involve 2 daily trains, in each direction. In this day and age, I have to think it would be a little improbable. I have to agree, as you say, that 8 hrs would be more realistic.

I do think it would be great if an Amtrak could go to Nashville. It is also too bad that the beautiful, old Nashville Union station couldn't have been revived as a train station, not a hotel. Same thing with the Tacoma station.

George, if not Nashville to Atlanta, how about Nashville to Memphis? About 6 hours? Is there usable track between the 2 cities? I guess the last passenger train for that route was the "City of Memphis", but I'm not sure.

Richard

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George Harris
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quote:
Originally posted by yukon11:
George, if not Nashville to Atlanta, how about Nashville to Memphis? About 6 hours? Is there usable track between the 2 cities? I guess the last passenger train for that route was the "City of Memphis", but I'm not sure.

Richard

The last Memphis-Nashville train was the overnight mail train. The City of Memphis died in the mid 1950's. The night train lasted until the mid 60's.

At 5 1/2 hours the City of Memphis was not viable even when the alternative was 2 lane US70. Definitely no hope against I-40 when a slightly over 3 hour drive is the norm

Bruceton-Jackson-Memphis track is no more. A Memphis-Nashville train would have to run Memphis to McKenzie on the former L&N line, then go to the ex NC&St.L line the rest of the way. It could not serve Jackson TN since the track is no longer there. This is the current Memphis-Nashville freight route, and I believe became the freight route shortly after the L&N - NC&St.L merger in 1957. Memphis - McKenzie - Bruceton has no signals, so 59 mph maximum.

Incidentally, the former L&N Memphis - Bowling Green main is also no longer there in total. The Tennessee River bridge on that line was removed in the late 1960's with further segments abandoned since. CSX freight out of Memphis, such as it is, all now goes through Nashville.

As to the original question: 6 hours maybe, but anything less than that, highly unlikely. I would be guessing 6 1/2 to 7 more likely

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Gilbert B Norman
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I recall a Sep '62 ride Cinci-Memphis in a heavyweight 10-1-2 Pullman into which four Roomettes replaced a like number of Sections, and two Bedrooms carved out of the Drawing Room. I cannot recall if the car was cut from the Humming Bird at BG or Nash.
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George Harris
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quote:
Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
I recall a Sep '62 ride Cinci-Memphis in a heavyweight 10-1-2 Pullman into which four Roomettes replaced a like number of Sections, and two Bedrooms carved out of the Drawing Room. I cannot recall if the car was cut from the Humming Bird at BG or Nash.

Bowling Green

Probably 2 coaches, 1 sleeper, a couple head ends and 1 E-something leading. This was never a heavy traffic line either passenger or freight. Even into the mid 60's there was also a day train that had coaches through to Cincinnati on the Pan American. You were in "dark" train order territory once you left the Louisville - Nashville main line, all the way to the connection to the ICRR belt line in Memphis. By that time the line was probably near freight free north of McKenzie TN and the former NC&StL freight came into it there for the rest of the way to Memphis. I rode north out of Memphis to Milan a couple times during that period, and on one occasion we pulled into a siding to meet a freight and had to back out as most of the siding was filled with stored cars.

Passenger traffic through Memphis Union Station was a shadow of its former self by that time. Probably over half the total rail passenger traffic out of Memphis by then was ICRR Memphis - Chicago which ran through Central Station 2 blocks over. (People in Memphis commonly referred to this station as Grand Central, although that was never its proper name.)

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Gilbert B Norman
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Memphis Union Station had to be the most desolate place this 21yo college kid, laden with luggage, had set foot in.

It was also my first introduction as to what part of the world I was in. I asked a ticket clerk if the adjacent restaurant was any good? She said "It's OK, but I'd never go there". "Why not?", "They serve "C-----d Pe--le". Was this Greenwich CT Yankee ever somewhere new!!!!

The place struck me as "hostile" so I never stuck around to see any SRY "action". Somehow, after parking my bags at the "desolate but somewhat more active" IC Station, that "homeless in Memphis" day went away. They say it's an attractive tourist destination nowadays, but based on my '62 visit, you couldn't prove it by me (sorry Mr. Harris, for "calling it as I saw it").

Anycase, I boarded the Memphis-Chicago Pullman line to be added to #6, Panama Ltd. The switching was so smooth I felt nothing; same for that at Carbondale (NO-St. Louis Pullman off, Parlor Car on). I rode to Chicago just to have a Panama Limited breakfast, then doubled back on the Panama that afternoon with their "great steak" to Champaign.

That "long way back to school" (PRR-RFP NY-Richmond, C&O Richmond-Cinci, L&N Cinci-Memphis, IC Memphis-Chicago-Champaign) was an eye opener. Get away from the "cracks" like the Meteors, Champs, and Panama, passenger trains through the Southeast were "rather primitive" as my Cinci-Memphis experience proved to be. I also wonder about adherence to safety. The Late Bill Haithcoat, who I knew face to face, and came from a family in Chattanooga that actually rode trains to get from here to there (not like my "why can't you just fly like everyone else does?" Father) remarked how his Sister was walking through a train at Chat when she opened an ungated vestibule - and fell on to the tracks. She was OK said Bill, and that was that. Uh, don't think would be the case today on any passenger railroad!!!!

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George Harris
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1962 was my year of high school graduation. I took a few rides for the fun of it over the summer, usually on a Saturday because I was working. Yes, things were much more casual in their was of operating. One was the Frisco, Memphis to Birmingham and back. Took the night train down (Sunnyland) and the day train back (Kansas City Florida Special. The Sunnyland was essentially a mail train with one standard weight coach. I think it had a Memphis to B'ham sleeper through the 1950's. It ran KC to Memphis, and then a separate train Memphis to B'ham. This equipment resided on Central Station track 1 though the daytime. It was primarily a local mail train with many stops, 8 hours for 250+/- miles. Recall we spent 20 minutes in Tupelo shuffling mail. I spent a good bit of time hanging out in the back vestibule watching the track unfold from under the train, and in the very curvy Jasper AL to B'ham section watching the engine as we went around the curves. Crew made no issue.
The KC Fla Special ran on Frisco KC to Birmingham, Southern Birmingham - Atlanta - Jacksonville. The usual was 2 streamlined coaches, a 14-4 streamlined sleeper, a 6 axle standard weight diner lounge with a paint job and fluted siding added to match the rest of the passenger equipment standard weight, a baggage car, RPO, and s few head end cars behind a pair of E8A's. The DL ran Springfield MO to B'ham. There was no diner on the Southern operated section. Northbound time out of B'ham was about 12:00, and the cooking was underway while sitting in the station. My surprise was that all the equipment other than the passenger cars was shuffled out at B'ham. Its time was 6:30 which was about the best that could be done on a rather curvy single track line with multiple freight trains and a 70 mph maximum. My first dining car meal. This train was decently full. On heavy travel days it would carry an additional coach or two, all standard weight. Its schedule was overnight KC-Memphis, day train Memphis-Atlanta, and overnight Atlanta-Jacksonville. It did not rate near the priority on Southern that it had on the Frisco. Frisco and Southern more or less tied for second place in passenger loading out of Memphis. Frisco track was fairly rough.
More later if any interest. (The southbound KC-Fla was fairly consistently about an hour late at Memphis due to a faster schedule, with the northbound usually on time.

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Gilbert B Norman
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quote:
Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
I also wonder about adherence to safety....…... opened an ungated vestibule - and fell on to the tracks....Uh, don't think so today especially on Amtrak!!!!

So long as this topic is moving miles away from what Richard, the originator, intended to discuss, safety could also be lax even in the Northeast. I was always horrified how on the New Haven #2xx EMU GCT-Stamford Locals, the traps were simply left open from Mt. Vernon to Stamford. It certainly was a "think twice" about moving between cars. Most scary to me was passing over the long Mianus River bridge. Traveling Eastward, there was no catwalk, so you could look down at the trap and see nothing but water.

Don't think you see any passenger railroad operating like that nowadays.

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yukon11
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Don't mind the drift. Most interesting discussion. I envy your experience with many different passenger trains. Although I am contemporary with you-all (1961 high school graduate) I never had a chance to ride more than 1-2 private trains. The "City of San Francisco" and the Burlington Northern passenger train was about it. I really would have liked to have hopped aboard the Panama Limited.

The scariest experience I ever had was a westbound trip on the Burlington Northern passenger train (around 1970). I remember one evening, near East Glacier Mt. we traveled along the high trestle over Two Medicine River, with a 60-70 mph wind. The cars would sway back and forth and I seriously wondered about a train derailment.

Richard

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Gilbert B Norman
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Well since this topic is meandering all over the place, with the apparent understanding of the originator, let it meader to this equally meandering article appearing in the UK publication, The Independent.

This reporter (apparently an American "stringer" residing in South Bend, but clearly is trying to "Anglicize" the writing for the benefit of his Editor and readers "over there") is "not exactly" too informed regarding anything about railroads. It would appear his Editor simply said "go take a long train ride". This Fair Use quotation puts his ignorance on full display:

  • I drift off somewhere after Pittsburgh, but due to my unfortunate placement in the cabin closest to the driver’s carriage at the front, I am woken by the blast of the train’s horn. I later learn that the driver has to sound it every time they pass through a crossing in a town, which is every few minutes, all through the night. No ear plugs or headphones can protect me from the horn, and so I use the time awake to watch out of the window for the little fires at the switches.
All told, while possibly unintentional, I think this piece is "negative".
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George Harris
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To carry on my early 1960's rides:
My first off just for the sake of it ride was Memphis-Little Rock. West on the CRIP diesel car and back on the Memphis section the day train out of Dallas.

The Rock Island RDC was relatively full to Little Rock and apparently about 2/3 that load west of Little Rock to Amarillo TX. It was an RDC3??, anyhow the passenger RPO version. 70 mph speed limit. If any problems with a single car being detected by the ABS or crossing signal not obvious. On time to the minute everywhere. Left Memphis Central Station at 10 something, about 2 1/2 hour run to Little Rock, 135 miles. Except for Crowley's Ridge near flat and straight the whole distance. I think we went into a siding once for a Cotton Belt freight. (Cotton Belt had rights on the CRIP Brinkley AR to Memphis.) Nothing outstanding in my memory, but this was 59 years ago. Today the line west of Brinkley is gone, what is left is part of Union Pacific. Rock Island and Missouri Pacific each had their own station in Little Rock. The Rock Island station was commonly called the Choctaw Station, or similar as this line of the CRIP was called the Choctaw Route. (I think when the line was first built Oklahoma was still Indian Territory.) Although MoPac called theirs Union Station, the only railroad involved was MoPac. By the way, this part of MP was originally the St. Louis, Iron Mountain, and Southern (SLIMS) and was still in the 1950's being referred to by my family and quite a few others as the "Iron Mountain" even though merged into the MoPac in 1917. This was more interesting. First, when they called us to the train it was a short train sitting in the station. After getting on the train there was quite a bit of sitting and then several back and forth movements. I later understood that at that time this was the train that originated in Hot Springs AR. We sat until the Texas to St. Louis train came in then there was much shuffling as Memphis cars from Texas were added, several head ends plus a coach on the back and a Hot Springs to St. Louis coach and probably a few head end cars taken off. Don't remember much about the train beyond that it had two coaches and that the Texas coach was nicer than the Hot Springs coach. We left Little Rock about 30 minutes late. The MoPac line to Memphis was about 150 miles with the Memphis line itself leaving the main at Bald Knob about 5O miles northeast of LR. Little Rock to there was, and I think still is double track. At that time I think the passenger train speed limit was 79 or 80. Whatever it was, after we cleared the area around Little Rock, he "put the pedal to the metal" all the way to Bald Knob, treating the speed limit as a suggestion. This was fairly common on many lines at that time as the desire to make up time trumped speed limits and with crews that were at the top of the seniority roster and short crew districts so that the engineers knew every bump in the road so to speak, lower level and sometimes all the way up managers turned a blind eye to passenger trains exceeding speed limits. Anyway, with that and the normal terminal slack, we backed into the bumping post at Memphis Union Station on time.

Both trains crossed the Mississippi River on the Harahan Bridge which was (and is) double track, used by MoPac, Rock Island, and Cotton Belt. The other railroad crossing the river, Frisco, had their own bridge. I failed to ever ride a train that crossed that bridge. The Harahan Bridge opened to rail traffic in 1916. The Frisco bridge opened in 1898 and was the southernmost bridge across the Mississippi River until 1930 when the bridge at Vicksburg was opened. The Harahan Bridge is about 200 feet north of the Frisco Bridge.

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Gilbert B Norman
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Moving this discussion (for maybe one post) back to the originator's intent, the Washington Post courtesy of Microsoft News reports "Amtrak got another $200M".

I willing to say that $200M is simply needed to "gas 'em up and pay the driver".

Now where I think legislation moves outside of what's known as reconciliation, thus effectively requiring 60 votes in the Senate to pass, is when the "earmarks" slip into the legislation. It's one thing to appropriate $200M to this agency or that, but it's something else when that $200M is specifically designated, or "earmarked", for one thing or the other.

A mandate to change train frequency is clearly an "earmark".

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Gilbert B Norman
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Two positive developments to report.

First, a BOS-WAS Sleeper line will be added to 66-67 effective April 3. The website is now accepting bookings. For travel BOS to WAS #67(15 APR) RM is $288, BR is $323.

Secondly, it appears that the train frequency provisions within ARPA 21 survived in the Senate, and will be enacted by Joe. Sure some here are "happy happy" to learn of such. Somehow, I don't think same extends to 2650 Lou Menk Drive, 500 Water, 1200 Peachtree NE, and 1400 Douglas.

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Gilbert B Norman
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The Senate Amendments to the House ARPA 21 Bill has now passed the House 220-211. Joe reportedly will sign on Friday (gotta have time to stage the event!!!).

Therefore, the LD Daily frequencies lost will be restored by June 15.

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Ocala Mike
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Biden/Schumer - "Help is on the way."

--------------------
Ocala Mike

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yukon11
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I'm happy and relieved that LD's will return to daily schedules. I've read some posts, on other forums, regarding folks who have had to spend 1-2 extra motel/hotel days in attempting to connect with 3X/week LD trains to and from Chicago. Frustrating and expensive.

A number of years ago, I had difficulty with trying to integrate a VIA Canadian train 3X/week schedule with vacation plans, in a round trip from Vancouver to Jasper. To add to the confusion, the Canadian schedule listed "day numbers" for departure and arrival days. For example, Sunday was listed as "day 1". However, later, Monday became "day 1". A little confusing. Add to that, I forgot about the time change when arriving in Jasper.

Speaking to time changes, I heard that 8 senators have introduced a bill to make Daylight Savings Time year-round:

https://is.gd/Ordg4t

I love it!

Richard

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Gilbert B Norman
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Richard, I still have seven clocks, four in the house, one watch, and one in the auto, that need some kind of manual action to show the time change. Only one though, a 60 cycle electric clock in the kitchen that was there when I bought this house in '79, requires me to climb two steps of a step ladder. Anytime there is an outage, I must do same as well.

But five others, including a $20 bedroom radio, seem to know how to do the change on their own.

Shifting somewhat in what has become an "open topic", all told, I think "we're coming out of it". My VAX-2 will be deemed fully effective on Wednesday (no side effects), The Times reports that concerns about the new COVID variants are "overstated", and Illinois is not one of those "throw your masks away" states.

I think in about two months, I'll be having Dinner with my VAXED friends (the "antis" need more time), and in six, checking into a hotel, or boarding a flight, will not be of concern.

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yukon11
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I have to "plead guilty" for diverting from my original topic....Amtrak's return to daily service for its LD's.

Mr. Norman, I count at least 13 clocks that need to be spring forwarded on March 14. Included are 3 on microwave oven and stove appliances. Also the clock on my backyard irrigation box as well as my auto dashboard clock. I do have an atomic (radio controlled) clock in my bedroom, but it somehow is in tune with the old DST span, which is constricted compared to the present. I've had a few atomic wall clocks, in the past, but they all went berserk and stopped telling the current time.

To attempt to return to a railroad topic, I guess we need to thank Sandford Fleming, a surveyor for the CPR, for helping to create the present time zones. Before the railroads led the way, there were something like over 300 time zones in the US. Also, a number of train crashes due to time confusion in the early days before 1883.

Richard

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Gilbert B Norman
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Well, that semiannual chore is done. The site http://www.time.is a great aid for "getting "em straight".

Some people "just don't care", but I doubt if any of such are at this site. Oh maybe by Summer, my Sister will notice, and ask her housekeeper to change at least her Grandfather.

Until '16 when Starbucks put it out of business, the coffee house in town with its "tables with a view" always had a big clock set about five minutes fast. I could never understand it, but the owner said this is how people want it. Further, once when an employee was "expecting", they had a contest for "date and time of birth" and the "s-e-x". I again said to the owner "isn't that term gender nowadays?". Again, that got me a "huh" look!!!

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George Harris
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Daylight saving time is like deciding your blanket is too short, so you cut one foot off one end and sew it on the other end.
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Gilbert B Norman
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I don't think this transition will be too bad. Instead of awaking at my usual 420A CST, and lay until my 445A CST "get a cracking" time, I awoke at 520A CDT and "cracked" at 545A CDT. I'll simply push this forward about 15min a day this week, and be good to go.

"Back in those days (pre-COVID)" when I was going overseas annually, Eastward, after "sort of snoozing" in Business Class, first stop at MUC after Passport Control, was the shower (best spent €15), then the train to Salzburg getting there about 315P CET. Hotel immediately available at that time; so a 5P Dinner at the hotel, rack, and come morning I was good to go.

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Gilbert B Norman
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This topic really should be moved over to "Open Discussion".

"It's now been a year"; reviewing my auto's ("drive-off" was Jul 12, 2018) log, Mileage Mar 15-20 was 19954. Mar 15-21 21730. Therefore, I've driven 1776 miles. When in practice, I'd drive that in a month. Me, own a 3yo auto with not that much over 20K on the clock?

Last flight was RIC-ORD Oct 7-19; last Amtrak was #52 (26JAN20), last METRA was Feb 20-20 returning home from the Chicago Symphony.

I think "we're coming out of the woods". My VAX-2, administered Mar 3, will be deemed effective, with no side effects, this coming Wednesday. The Times reports that concerns about the new variants have been "overblown", and based on the unfounded "surge" concerns of the "Superspreader Bowl", the "Springbreakers down there" and the "St. Paddypubcrawlers" up here, will likely be overblown or unfounded as well.

Besides, what do I care? I "don't do stuff like that"; COVID notwithstanding.

Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
yukon11
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Amtrak will return to daily frequencies, for long distance trains, in 3 phases:

https://is.gd/WjK8oK

I can't find any information on when some of the corridor/commuter trains will return to their regular schedules. For example, no information, so far, as to when the Amtrak Cascades service north of Seattle will return. The link leaves some questions regarding traditional dining vs. flex dining with the return to daily runs.

Richard

Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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