RailForum.com
TrainWeb.com

RAILforum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» RAILforum » General Forums » Open Discussion » Cruiselines; Are They "Done For"?

   
Author Topic: Cruiselines; Are They "Done For"?
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That is not saying these mega sized operators such as Carnival are about to "deep six", but has the current conditions, where passenger health and safety must be questioned, going to adversely affect their growth - or even ability to "hang on to what we got"?

This means not only the Covid 19 pandemic, which WILL end in due course, but safety such as a vessel foundering, the numerous other health issues that have occurred, the "no man's land" that the lines use to avoid civil liability (and even criminal prosecution).......

We have several members who regularly take cruises and apparently enjoy them. Hope they will choose to participate in the discussion. For myself, I last went on such during '88, and since then they have become "loss leaders" in selling ocean transportation with the expectation of selling expensive and profitable "extras". I have no particular desire to go on others, so it's probably a "never again" with me.

Cast off!!!

Posts: 9459 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jerome Nicholson
Full Member
Member # 3116

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jerome Nicholson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hope to live long enough to take an Alaska cruise with rides on the Alaska Railroad at the end.
Posts: 480 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mpaulshore
Full Member
Member # 3785

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for mpaulshore     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Regarding large cruise lines’ current conditions, I’d say yes, there’s a fair chance that those conditions has going to adversely affect the lines’ growth. But probably not by much.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have to wonder how naval architecture has advanced to such extent to allow so much weight and cube to be placed within the superstructure of a vessel - passenger or freight notwithstanding.

In addition to the ten or so decks of a cruise ship's superstructure (four decks if that within the hull), Crowley containers stacked three high atop a vessel's Main Deck would also, to me, appear to affect such vessel's stability.

Obviously these vessels have been certified to sail upon the High Seas, but when I see one of these Love Tubs docked at Miami, I must wonder what would it be like aboard such and encountering a real "blow".

ABC (US) News

A Mariner's prayer---

"Oh God, thy sea is so great and my ship is so small".

Posts: 9459 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is a harrowing tale set forth in a column appearing in The Wall Street Journal

Fair Use:

  • During a time when we’re afraid to go out, fearful of others as possible Covid-19 carriers, how do we ensure we continue acting in ways consistent with our common human dignity?

    Holland America Line is working tirelessly to find medical help and safe passage home for the 1,243 guests and 1,247 crew stranded at sea, cruising north near Mexico’s Yucatán Peninsula, on two of our ships, Zaandam and Rotterdam. Covid-19 broke out on Zaandam last week. Two hundred people on board have had flulike symptoms, and nine have tested positive. They are among the 9,000-plus passengers still remaining on about a dozen cruise ships world-wide. These are unfortunate souls unwittingly caught up in the fast-changing health, policy and border restrictions that have rapidly swept the globe.

The outcome of this odyssey could well be analogous to that of the M/S St Louis. Further, I must wonder how the industry can survive after this onslaught of adverse publicity.

addendum: April 2; both vessels have now docked @ Ft. Lauderdale:

New York Times

Fair Use:
  • The vacation the passengers had imagined, a luxurious two-week voyage along the coast of South America to the southernmost tip of the hemisphere, turned into something else entirely.

    Four passengers on board died, victims of the coronavirus. Many others began showing flulike symptoms, with nine people winding up in the ship hospital. The rest of the passengers from around the world who booked $3,500 passage on Holland America’s Zaandam spent weeks in limbo, trying to find a port that would offer an end to their horrific, nearly four-week voyage.

    After days of debate, Florida finally relented and the ship and a second vessel accompanying it, the Rotterdam, pulled into the dock in Fort Lauderdale late Thursday afternoon..

Posts: 9459 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's not just me speculating. It's now The New York Times reporting.

Fair Use:
  • First, there was the Diamond Princess, stranded off the coast of Japan as the coronavirus infected hundreds of passengers. Then the Westerdam, circling in the sea for days with nowhere to dock. Then the Grand Princess, the Costa Luminosa and the Zaandam.

    Cruise ships have been a focal point of the coronavirus pandemic from the beginning, widely blamed for a series of major outbreaks that spread the disease across the world.

    Now, the companies that own those ships face a potential financial catastrophe. With most international travel halted, they have virtually no revenue. They have become symbols of deadly contagion. And despite assurances from President Trump, they were left out of the $2 trillion stimulus package Congress passed last month. While analysts say the major cruise lines have enough money to survive at least another six months, the companies are scrambling to line up new financing in anticipation of a slowdown that could last even longer.

    The Carnival Corporation, which serves nearly 11.5 million travelers a year, or roughly 50 percent of the global cruise market, is at the center of the crisis. Over the last couple of months, the company has had highly publicized outbreaks on several of its ships, including the Diamond Princess and the Zaandam, which has been trying to unload sick passengers in Florida...
I respect we have members here who hold that cruising is a very satisfying experience- even if I'm not among them. But with that being said, even after the CV-19 "all clear" sounds, this industry will have difficulty returning to "pre-CV" levels.

Finally, there is simply no way that a "Cruisetrak" could come to pass, for as links within the captioned article note, all to many of both assets (ships) and employees represent foreign entities.

Posts: 9459 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If some here hold that the Trump administration's response to the Covid-19 crisis has been inept, the Wall Street Journal reports that the cruiseline industry's response has bordered on criminal.

Fair Use:
  • Australia began a probe that could lead to criminal charges against Carnival or its staff regarding the March 8 voyage of the Ruby Princess around New Zealand. Authorities are trying to determine whether Carnival, or its Princess Cruises subsidiary, knew or should have known about potential Covid-19 cases before allowing some 2,700 passengers to disembark in Sydney.

    In public hearings that began April 22, the ship’s senior physician, Ilse Von Watzdorf, was asked why she didn’t update the ship’s medical log books to show that some ill people aboard the ship had been swabbed for possible Covid-19. “I did not have enough hours, I think” to update records, she testified.When emergency-room staff asked if anybody else was sick on the ship, the ship’s medical staff denied it, Dr. Gonzalez said. He later learned several crewmen were in quarantine for symptoms of Covid-19 at the time, he said.

    “That’s not right,” the doctor said later in an interview. “That’s just not right.”

    ......Any company that fails to properly notify the CDC of a serious outbreak of shipboard illness ahead of pulling into port can draw penalties as high as $200,000 for each violation. If a death is involved, the potential penalty can reach $500,000 for each case...

Posts: 9459 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ICEBERG, Dead Ahead!!!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/business/stock-market-today-coronavirus.html

Fair Use:
  • Norwegian Cruise Line, one of the world’s largest cruise companies, said on Tuesday that there was “substantial doubt” about its ability to survive the coronavirus pandemic.

    Norwegian acknowledged the dire situation in a securities filing announcing that it was seeking $650 million in new financing. The global shutdown of the cruise industry has strained the finances of all three major cruise companies — Norwegian and its two main rivals, Carnival Corporation and Royal Caribbean — forcing them to borrow money at high interest rates.

    As the coronavirus continues to spread, Norwegian said in the filing, it is “expected to continue to adversely impact our results, operations, outlook, plans, goals, growth, reputation, cash flows, liquidity, demand for voyages and share price.”

    Carnival said on Monday that it planned to begin cruising again on some of its ships as early as August. A spokeswoman for Norwegian said the company hoped to begin cruising in July.
Even if I'm not much of a cruise fan (and really, after my "take it or leave it" AT ride last January, not that much of an Amtrak fan), I respect we have members here such as Frank and Miss Vickie, that get pleasure from such. I respect that, and am only being "the curator" of material taken from recognized news sources.
Posts: 9459 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Even if cruises do not appear high on New York Times columnist Gail Collins' "hit parade", she nevertheless holds "they will get the bailout".

Reason? you guessed it.

Fair Use:
  • Still, they have lots of friends in high places. Donald Trump had called them one of the “prime candidates” for a government bailout. (The biggest of the mega-cruise companies, Carnival is chaired by Trump pal Micky Arison, and was once a sponsor of an “Apprentice” reboot.) Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin amended the thought, saying the administration didn’t want a bailout — just “providing certain things for certain industries.” Which, of course, is not the same thing at all.

Posts: 9459 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Home Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2




Copyright © 2007-2016 TrainWeb, Inc. Top of Page|TrainWeb|About Us|Advertise With Us|Contact Us