If I was to book passage on the Empire BUilder next week, which direction would be the best given the hours of sunlight, east bound or west bound??? Given that it gets dark by 5pm now, which would be the best scenery??
Thanks!!
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
Eastbound, towards Chicago. That way you get most of the mountainous bit in the morning rather than the evening.
However, if you're going near Portland instead of Seattle, then westbound from Spokane would be better for the river scenery.
Geoff M.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Geoff is correct. The westbound Builder approaches the Rockies at about 5 p.m., after the sun has dropped over the mountains. Eastbound you can see the peaks of Glacier Park. (After that the train traverses the vast and empty High Plains of Montana and North Dakota for hours and hours.)
Posted by wayne72145 (Member # 4503) on :
I made a west bound trip last January during a full moon and was delighted with how much the moon light reflexed off the snow. I was fortunate to have a full moon AND a clear night. Generally its better east bound.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
well as it has worked out, I booked passage tomorrow on train 7 (last mintue but hey, life's short) out of chicago all the way to seattle. I wanted to go eastbound but it was easier to go westbound for me as I would have had to fly to Seattle tomorrow morning and didnt want to chance possible delays and miss train 8.
Do they still offer free wine tasting on this route???
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well Ms. Birdchops, it certainly appears that, as of a few moments ago, "the price is right" for a Roomette CHI to SEA journey on #7(5).
But reduced visibility of the Rockies is simply part of having the price right.
Hopefully American offered some attractive last minute one-way rates to get home. I guess they still have some vestige of an STL hub - about the only asset of worth they acquired from TWA through the merger (LHR landing rights had been sold off prior to the merger).
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Yes the price was absolutely right. I take my own table linen and set the table with my own crystal wine glasses in the room. As a Stewardess with the aforementioned airline, my ticket home is not an issue, hence the last minue one-way rate is just right...free. I've seen the rockies more times than I can count on the fingers and toes in a full 777, for me its 3 day cocktail party (yes, even on Amtrk I dress for dinner). Did they take the china off this route and replace it with those plastic dishes? Miss Birdchops
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Birdchops, I too like my wine in this life, but my Riedel wineware stays at home. I do have sets of their "O-Riedel" line for both Pinot Noir and Viognier that I will take with me when going somewhere by auto to hook up with wine appreciating friends, but I have had too many "casualties' attempting to carry Wally World (well I guess I should say Venture in deference to your local "fallen flag" Big Box retailer) wineware aboard Amtrak in the past. Now I am simply content with Amtrak plasticware, which be assured never sees my home - even for a $3.99 "Binnys Bargain Bin' offering that I am going to "douse" myself.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
oh my you said "Venture"....ha. What a blast from the past that was. The trick in carry fine crystal (i.e. Wally World) is getting small glasses without huge stems (kind of what you get on board any airline's First Class). Voila, safe and remarkably strong.
Ok, off for a pedicure. Bon Voyage
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Well, the forecast is for snow and cloudy for most of the Empire Builder route for the next 3 days. In this case you can't see much of the mountains anyway, but fresh snow can make many landscapes look very pretty. So even North Dakota and Montana prairie might look wonderful out the window in a warm train with a tasty glass of wine.
Sounds like a perfect spur-of-the-moment train ride to me. Have a wonderful trip, and wave to the left as you go by my house about 4 minutes out of St. Paul tomorrow night.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I certainly agree that good crystal makes any drink seem much better. On a trip on the Ocean a few years ago I stumbled on a store in Halifax that makes good quality crystal at an affordable price - http://www.novascotiancrystal.com/
The set of old fashioned glasses I purchased makes a jigger or two of bourbon/ice/ and maybe a splash of water taste so good. Especially when gliding along while ensconced in warm bedroom on a good train like the Ocean (in Budd equipment days) or Empire Builder. We try to take a couple glasses with us if not a lengthy trip.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Yes Twinstarrocket, I'll be lifting a glass your way tomorrow evening no doubt. All packed. I will try and get some pictures perhaps, and post a little diddy online. I deffinately look forward to a jigger or two palmland, it makes the world such a better place LOL.
Ms. Birdchops
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Have a great time and may the non-rev gods be with you on the return trip.
Frank in dark and cool SBA
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
One would think, from this thread, that Railforum habitues are not happy unless they are riding in a sleeper room with a good buzz going.
Since my tastes are pedestrian I'm content with the honest plonk sold in the lounge car. Plastic wineglasses, too.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
haha Henry, no this is definately not the case. I'd drink a good cabernet straight from the bottle. Its just a foray away from the stresses of every day living, including the upcoming Christmas travel crowd at airports across the country (ewwww!!!) and a time to blow off steam, see the country from ground level for a change, and enjoy the scenery, snowy or otherwise, not to mention meeting some honest and unpretentious "real" people, not the kind you run into in the front of an airplane, nanny in tote.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Not meaning to turn this Forum into Airfan.net, but I wonder why, Ms. Birdchops, the Flight Attendants I know in this life, all of whom senior enough to hold anything, overseas included, they want so long as either American or United are in business, bid away from First FA and prefer "life in the Main Cabin"?
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
The in house F/A, who starts year 39 on the 17th, says "Give me the aft galley any day!" And this on an airline that still serves free meals to everyone.
Frank, ready to get on the Surfliner at 9:20AM headed to LAUPT.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Not meaning to turn this Forum into Airfan.net, but I wonder why, Ms. Birdchops, the Flight Attendants I know in this life, all of whom senior enough to hold anything, overseas included, they want so long as either American or United are in business, bid away from First FA and prefer "life in the Main Cabin"?
Consider that in the "first class" part of the plane there will almost always be one or more self-important buffoons who seem to imagine that the sole job to the flight attendant is to cater to their every whim and are more than willing to be irrational. loud and obnoxious if they do not get their was, therefore life is generally easier when in the coach part dealing with more ordinary people even with the potential crying baby - multiple kids possibilities.
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by birdchops: Yes the price was absolutely right. I take my own table linen and set the table with my own crystal wine glasses in the room. As a Stewardess with the aforementioned airline, my ticket home is not an issue, hence the last minue one-way rate is just right...free. I've seen the rockies more times than I can count on the fingers and toes in a full 777, for me its 3 day cocktail party (yes, even on Amtrk I dress for dinner). Did they take the china off this route and replace it with those plastic dishes? Miss Birdchops
I am in agreement with Birdchops who obviously likes to travel with some style and class. There was a time in my younger and more foolish days I would "dress" for dinner, meaning a dinner jacket (usually called a tuxedo in the U.S.). For some strange reason when I dressed this way I would notice the other passengers whispering and pointing.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I have met quite a few F/As who have confessed their affection for trains. They remind me of the World War II RAF bomber pilot hero who, when asked what his greatest life experience had been, replied, "Standing on the footplate of the Flying Scot engine on its way to Edinburgh at night." There seems to be a genuine attraction to trains among airmen and airwomen. Maybe it has something to do with the romance of an older technology of travel.
Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
Enjoy your trip birdchops. You deserve it. Do it to the max. Dressing up for diner is a nice touch. But I wouldn't be too formal! Someday I'll travel on that Empire Builder.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
train time 03:45 just left fargo on schedule. had rhe steak for dinner wirh an intereating couple (he road a bike from i.d. to key west and is returning home). the lower level lounge is set up differently on this train...the attending crew isnt behind a counter rather its a ' u ' shaped do it yourself experience. crew seema ok, the car attendant is retiring in 30 months. cold here!! more to come
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Curious about how you post messages from your 'puter while aboard the train, Birdchops. Some kind of telephone wireless thingy?
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Just departed wiliston, nd. so far this train gets a 'c', and does not reflect the marketing brochure amtrak puts out. the car attendant is fine, the dining staff seems tired and abused by the traveling public. i know what that is like. lunch in a couple hours. the train is only half full. posting via my sprint inspiration phone. more to come
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Lunch was a better experience as the staff on the other end of the car seemed more upbeat. we'll be dining in thr room at 6pm tonight. the wine fest is starting soon. Harve is next,and the train is only a few minutes behind. the ceiling is layered starting about 600ft visibility varies right now its improved over the snow of N.d.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Things have turned around. the wine tasting was actually quite fun and the staff more relaxed and personable. my table Won three of the remaining bottles, two of them in my party. Needless to say, dined in the bedroom last night and finished off the bounty. Moved to a bedroom yesterday to finish off the trip. its workes out quite nice. overall the train was ahead of schedule so we layed over at shelby for 50 minutes, with someone leaving the train by ambulence. Arrived spokane on time. the seattle based crew are now on day 6. whew!
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Birdchops, how do you do that -- plug your Sprint phone into the computer and use that to transmit your posts? Are you able to surf the Net with it?
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
P.S. Is "Havre" pronounced "Harve," as Bret Favre is pronounced "Farve?" (Rather than the correct French manner of dropping the "r".)
I never hear the train announcements, you know. Just wondered.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
HAV-er, allegedly coming from a love triangle when one gave up and said "you can have 'er". Not the same as the French port which is pronounced "luh ahvr(uh)" - there is a hint of the R in there.
Geoff M.
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Oh Henry (that's a cute phrase too), I constantly rail over the pronunciation of Favre. And we sure heard it on a continuous basis earlier in the year. But the Cheeseheads insist that it is Farve. Just like Prairie du "Sheen". There oughta be a law!
I think she is surfing the net on her phone. I can do that on my iPhone. In fact, I leave today on the cruise to Hawaii and will try to check in once we reach Hilo on Friday.
Birdchops, thanks for the report. I love live, condensed and unbiased reporting.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
I am on my spint phone, which is like a blackberry. arriving sea now, some 50 mins early!!! its been a lovely trip and goegeous country side. now i get to fight the airport crowd!!
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I once had a boss with the last name of Favre. He pronounced it "Fahv." But he was from Nawlins.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well, Ms. Birdchops, I'm pleased to learn that the journey "turned itself around'. I'm sure whatever grape juice you were carrying helped the cause.
I hope you do not have a corkscrew with you that is near and dear. On a rail out air return journey to Denver last July, the one I was carrying (albeit I don't know what it is to check baggage - air or rail) became TSA contraband (actually I asked an examiner who was on break as I had my doubts; very courteously he said "it won't get through' - I heaved it).
My dearly departed corkscrew did provide our poet laureate around here with subject matter:
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Mr. Norman--
What sort of corkscrew did you have? They are not on the TSA's list and I don't know a Flight Attendant who doesn't carry one. (Can't always count on catering.) I always have one in my carry on.
The rules in other countries are less lenient. I lost one, as did my F/A traveling companion, to the folks at Gatwick a year ago.
Frank in sunny SBA
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Ms. Birdchops--
Thanks for the great, realtime trip report. I hope you made it out of SEA without having to ride the jumpseat.
Frank in Sunny SBA
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Apparently the problem was that the corkscrew had a small sharp object for removing a lead bottle cap.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Ah, now I see the problem. Mine are usually of the hotel mini-bar style.
Frank in still sunny SBA
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Well, the empire builder trip of a lifetime is over, arriving in sea some 45 min early. leaving room E was hard. flew to sacramento and on to vegas for the night. enjoyed my time on the e.b.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Suffice to say, KSBA Frank, I've "gotta few of those" purloined from hotel room service (purloined?!!! hey I paid for 'em when my overpriced, overcooked yet cold chow showed up) laying about my bar at home.
But just think Frank, had I thought for one second "I'm flying back" and took one of those instead, our poet laureate here would have one less subject about which to write!!!
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Just a couple after thoughts now that im home. we were served a full hot breakfast on the last morning prior to arrival in seattle, which i thought was to be a cold selection. nice surprised. also word to the wise, when traveling in a bedroom make sure that if you are in one of those that can convert to a two room suite, remember that the sliding dividing wall is not sound proof at all, and you can hear everything in the next room. without straining i heard every 'ooooh' and 'oh god yes!!' from the couple next door. having not layed eyes on these two young perveyors of 1-800-hot-train, i was shocked to see it was the 60 something couple i had breakfast the day before hoot'n and hollar'n like they were 19 again. i just had to laugh and was glad i won that wine that afternoon...
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
birdchops, there is something about riding the rails in a sleeper that is better than Viagra. Remember Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint in "North by Northwest" on the Century? Some of us 60-somethings still got it going on, I guess.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Ms. Birdchops--
My question is did you get on the first flight you listed for? Any chance that you were upfront? We rarely see that side of the curtain domestically anymore even with 38 years seniority. Too many "throwups".
Frank in gorgeous SBA.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
we have jumpseat agreement with southwest so i rode wn sea-smf-las, stayed the night, got to the airport and was able to ride the jumpseat on a delayed flight two hours before i intended to. it is virtually impossible to sit in first class EVER because its become nothing but upgrade class. drx's are so rampant at my airline (drx=book a 1pm flight, then show up for the 8am and screw the employees trying to nonrev) that its hard to gage the loads. flying in an unused jumpseat is all we got right now lol. i have said for years that first should cost and the product be a f/c product, and stop the constant upgrades..
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
I guess the idea behind upgrades (barring overbooking) is simply to tempt the free upgraders to be so tempted by the product that they pay for an upgrade next time.
Geoff M.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Off topic at a railforum, but as Ms. Birdchops, as well as if I recall properly Mr. Frank @ KSBA have noted, it appears that airline employee nonrev travel has become a fringe benefit that is fast depreciating in value.
Case in point; two daughters aged 22 and 19 of an AA F/A with 26 years traveled overseas this past June; since both are in college (Connecticut College and LSU) they certainly qualify for non rev. However, I learned from their Father that they were paying for travel KORD-EGLL-KORD - on UA!!!
Trading with the enemy???
Finally Ms. Birdchops, when we refer to the "jumpseat', perchance do we mean such on the Flight Deck? That is an experience I have had once in this life - during 1957.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Oh for those college days when students qualified for a 50% standby fare. Usually wound up sitting in first class as that was long before FF miles and upgrades. First class was truly first class.
Even in the last days of Eastern Airlines, the wine glass was never empty on my frequent Balt-Atl-Jax flights.
But I'd still rather take the EB (to keep this on topic).
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
An airline employee rarely gets to travel in first class anymore. At my airline, you have to pay for first class, regardless where you are flying. Coach is free but only after 5 years of seniority, and only free to latin america, hawaii, alaska, continental u.s. (including mexico and canada) and the carribean. You still have to pay for all taxes however. I dont know how amtrak pass travel works, or how their commutters get to/from work but would like to know. I had one guy say he just rode in the crew sleeper when he commutted from PIT to CHI to start his trip. I can jumpseat in a Flight Attendant jumpseat, but never in a cockpit jumpseat (nor can a pilot sit in mine) as its all about the union aggreements. Frankly, its so crowded i dont want a pilot in my jump seat as he wouldnt care to fan the toilets for 4+ hours like we have to do and his back would kill him so much I frankly dont want to hear him moan and groan (pilots are THE biggest winers outside MD's that I know). Moreover, first class is just upgrade class now, the food sucks, and the service is poor because the stew has already served 3 meals in the last 12 hours, and is on her 4th leg that day working a 14 hour duty day and has to do it again tomorrow..and the next day...because we've all taken such huge pay cuts one cant afford this job no more. Anyway, back to trains. Why cant first class be a bit more nicer on board Amtrak??? Would it really cost that much more to have a dining car without 4 tables stacked high with boxes, silverwear and lets talk those plastic plates shall we, even on the EB !!!
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Birdchops, you're so right about all those tables being used as storage bins. It's unattractive and inefficient. But:
There is NO other place on a long distance diner to store those things. If you ever were able to go down into the kitchen to see how things were done, you'd think you were aboard a World War II submarine just setting out on a sixty-day war patrol. Boxes and boxes of provender are stashed every which way, including right in the middle of the working area. There's barely room for the cooks to do their thing.
I'm not sure a dining car redesign would solve the problem of where to stash things. Food and its appurtenances take up remarkable amounts of room. Perhaps the space of one table could be turned into a locker with shelves and walls from floor to ceiling. It would look a lot better.
First class on Amtrak would be nicer if they brought back the wine-and-cheese boxes that used to be given to each passenger on departure. That'd be a start.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
It would also be nice if they brought back the juice and at least one soft drink in the "foyer" of each car.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
how did they do it in the 50's when apparently dining cars had class??? maybe it was all a farce and it was just as nasty as it is now.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Birdchops, take it from one who likely has ridden more miles pre-Amtrak than post, the Diner on any name train had "class". Think of such as Emirates Air apparently is today.
Perhaps one reason there is so much junk in the diner is there is that so much of today's Amtrak kitchen is disposable packaged food containers, disposable utensils, drink containers etc. In 'the old days' most everything was consumed on board and all tableware was washed and returned to its designated place.
Regardless, Amtrak's next generation cars need to find a solution - along with keeping the diners and lounges from becoming a crew lounge area.
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
I do envy those of you who experienced true first class train travel. Both the meals and the accomodations could be so much nicer with a little bit of effort. Rather like they are trying to do, without much success per Smitty, on the CS.
By the way Henry, I just wrote this on my iphone from the deck of the Zaandam while sitting in the Hilo harbor. Lovely day in Hawaii!
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
Thank you Mr. Norman for the picture of the UP dome diner. I remember in the 60's having dinner upstairs on the City of Los Angeles, and it was a wonderful experience dining at that elegant linen-clad table with real glass ware and genuine silver utensils, not stainless steel that is often referred to as silver. About the nearest you can find in North America to "the good old days" is Via's Canadian that still has an elegant dining car with linen and real glass ware. Alas, although Via says you will dine with silverware, in fact they removed the genuine CPR silver many years ago and it is now just stainless steel flatware.