posted
While admittedly an exaggeration on my part, it seems as if both auto and air travel is portrayed here as some kind of "low impact assault course', and that expansion of rail service - especially Long Distance rail, will usher forth "a new Golden Age of travel", this article appearing in Friday's Wall Street Journal reports that there are devotees of air travel as it exists today;
TOKYO”Because of a typo, Gino Bertuccio is paying about $33,500 to fly from here to Hong Kong next week. But he isn't complaining. "The feeling is incredible," says Mr. Bertuccio, a 48-year-old Miami businessman.
Why is he so happy? Mr. Bertuccio, through an online auction, landed a seat on the debut commercial flight of Boeing Co.'s long-awaited 787 Dreamliner, the world's first jet made largely of plastic reinforced by carbon fiber, rather than aluminum.
The All Nippon Airways charter flight has kicked off a scramble by a unique group of fliers who love nothing more than settling into a brand-new plane for its maiden voyage.
Their patron saint: Thomas Lee, a 59-year-old California executive who is believed to be the only person to score a seat on the first commercial flight of Boeing's 747 in 1970; Airbus's giant A380, the first all double-decker jetliner, in 2007; and the Dreamliner. His Dreamliner trip will be his third voyage on a new jet.....Norihiko Mizota, a 46-year-old aviation devotee who spends weekends photographing planes in Japan, also struck out. So he plans to play hooky from his day job as a technology consultant and shoot pictures of the Dreamliner taking off from Narita airport next week. "It's rare to see an airplane from a Japanese carrier make a world debut," he said.
Finally, while both United/Continental and Delta have B-787 (corrected) aircraft on order, it's "gonna be awhile till they get 'em" - and then they will likely be placed on overseas routes.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I'm quite certain that neither United or Continental have the A-380 on order. I doubt that Delta does, either. Continental does have the Boeing 787 on order and the first aircraft has left the assembly building and is now in the paint hangar. It will, sadly, say United on it but will be delivered to Continental. The original plan was for it to be used to fly from Houston to Auckland and, possibly Houston to Lagos. Continental will start flying the latter mid-November with a 777.
Frank in foggy and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Stand corrected; B-787 vice A-380. Originating posting changed to reflect what I can assure this Forum was my intent.
It is interesting to learn that UCH's 787 aircraft are quite far along in production and that Frank's carrier will have them far sooner than I would have expected.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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So it would appear that the CO side of UCH will be the first US Flag carrier to fly the 787.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I can understand how there are 'airfans'. Any form of travel has a certain allure, at least for me. That assumes you can get past the aggravating parts, be it airport security, surly train crews, or even the 'herding' on cruise ships.
I believe former Trains magazine David Morgan posted an article in Kalmbach's short lived Airliner International magazine in the 70's and I think someone also had a bus magazine. Unfortunately these days it's just a little harder to find the romance of travel - unless you want to pay big bucks for it. Guess that's what you mean by the new ' Golden Age of Travel'.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sbalax: Continental does have the Boeing 787 on order and the first aircraft has left the assembly building and is now in the paint hangar.
It's out of the hangar now and looking pretty sharp. There was a "spy" photo posted the other day on an airplane group that I belong to.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Can you send me a link to that? There have been a couple of pictures and a video on the employee website during the construction process but nothing lately.
Mr. Norman--
Yep. Continental was the North American launch customer. I seem to recall that Northwest jumped the line somehow but that order has been put back by Delta.
The first aircraft will have a mix of BusinessFirst (the class of service and name will survive for now), Economy Plus (Coming over from United) and Economy. I had the numbers at some point but can't find them right now.
Frank in sunny but still cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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There is a surprisingly large communtiy of bus enthusiasts as well....... folks who seek out and restore antique vehicles trading tips and suggestions on where to find rare parts to make them just so.
The 1957 Greyhound Scenicruiser is a particularly popular model.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Can you send me a link to that? There have been a couple of pictures and a video on the employee website during the construction process but nothing lately.
posted
I have run into ferry fans, too. Eccentricity takes many forms.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Mark me as eccentric - never seen a ferry I wouldn't go out of my way to take. The ferries at Seattle and Bellingham,WA, Skagway,AK, and Port Kent,NY are a few that come to mind that are in walking distance of a train station. Guess Staten Island counts too. Are there others?
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Living here in Boeingville, I've been watching the progress of the 787 program for (too) many years. Once the airplane is in service I'll be looking for a chance to take a trip on one of those birds. The carbon fiber construction technology is new and the design of the plane's body is different from the aluminum based planes. There is a noticeable sleekness and elegance to the 787 body and wings that will distinguish it from previous generations of aircraft.
I also saw the new and expanded 747-8 land while I was waiting at a stoplight near Boeing Field. It's not as big as a 380, but it's a huge plane.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote: Mark me as eccentric - never seen a ferry I wouldn't go out of my way to take.
Then on your next trip to the Pacific Northwest, you might consider a trip on the Martha S. You won't be able to walk from the nearest train station--it's about 80 miles from Spokane or Ephrata--but it is one of the more unique ferry trips in you can take in WA state. For hardcore rail/ferry fans, there is also the Eastern Washington Gateway RR. The EWGRR is a state-owned rail line that primarily serves the wheat country between Coulee City and Cheney WA, just south of the Keller Ferry.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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I really like what I've seen so far of the 747-8. I expect that Boeing will eventually extend the upper deck even further back. My recent flight HNL-LAX on a 737-800 reminded me of how much I miss the 747's and DC10's that I used to travel on to and from the Islands!
Frank in foggy and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Thanks Vincent, we'll put it on our list. There aren't too many ferry river crossings still around, but it certainly makes you slow down and appreciate all that's going on around you. A recent crossing of the James river on a very small ferry was very enjoyable. An even shorter one is across the St. Johns river near Jacksonville, FL. Usually you can spot a nuclear aircraft carrier looming not far away that is docked at the Mayport Naval Base.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Little thread creep, but yes, that '57 Greyhound Scenicruiser with the "split-level" (?) was a spectacular rig. Along with its smartly uniformed professional driver with those rows of service/safe driving award pins on his lapel...
Still, I would have rather gone through Glenwood Canyon in a Vista Dome on the DRG and W if I was traveling from Denver to SLC in those days...
Now back to airplanes; anyone seen the new TV show about the Pan Am flight attendants, oops, I mean "stewardesses?" The show is rather interesting due to its historical perspective and great footages of the non noise-abated early 707s.
Those babies made some kind of a roar on takeoff, eh?
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Who ever thought that we would one day be flying oceanic long-haul routes in a Boeing 737? Certainly not me! My all time favorite aircraft is the United Airlines DC-10. I used to love watching that plane arrive into OGG from SFO. You could watch it do the approach and make the big, long circle into the airport. Then when it would pull up to the gate, the nose would come right at you if you stood at the window. That's when you really got to appreciate what a "widebody" airplane is. I also remember the UAL flight attendants wearing Hawaiian garb and handing out mai tais.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Yes, I have watched the TV series "Pan Am". In the episode relating to travel to Rangoon (what's it called nowadays?) and Jakarta, the producers certainly show their ignorance of the seniority system with references to how the "Captain' managed to override many senior First Officers (some script blubbering about "need some young blood"). However, if one wants to read a narrative of how a seniority system was usurped by an arbitration award, read applicable chapters of Gandt that I cited elsewhere at the Forum with regards to the merger of the Pan Am and National rosters.
However, during 1963, Pan Am was still flying high - the Skygods were not about to contemplate a merger with any domestic "cracker" airline at that time.
But to one lacking knowledge of air transport industry affairs (I really don't much outside of Labor Relations - and that is only because the Railway Labor Ace covers airlines as well), I guess the production is "entertainment".
But to give the producers credit for something, I understand that the approach to VHHH, Hong Kong Kai-Tak (now closed), was quite challenging and involved a 45dg Right turn while on 'Final' and doing so with IAS of about 145Kt.
Finally regarding Mr. Smith's comment with respect to B-737 varietals, a few years ago, I flew KORD-KSNA - and that is what United had assigned for that afternoon flight. All I could think 'can this thing hold enough gas for a non-stop?'
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Palmland there is a ferry from BC to anacordis (sp?) Washington, one from Stjohn N. B. to Digby Nova Scotia and one across the James near Jamestown . I can't remember off the top of my head the exact spot. There are several on the outer banks of NC and one from Nova Scotia to PEI There is one across Picton Harbor that is quite nice. I know we used a few more but would have to check my travel logue to pin point them.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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My three favorite airline trips of all time (NOT!):
1. NY-Washington shuttle on an Eastern Airlines Constellation in a blinding snowstorm circa 1960 or 1961. We landed at Friendship (now BWI) because Washington National was shut down.
2. NY-Albany on a Mohawk Airlines Convair 240 or 440 circa 1962 or 1963, watching the loose bolts rattle around the nacelles, wondering if the engines were going to fall off (they didn't).
3. Chicago O'Hare to Cedar Rapids, IA in Sept., 1967 on a United Airlines DC-6(B?) wondering if we were ever going to be able to land during a raging thunderstorm to complete the last leg of my return trip from a tour in Korea (we made it).
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Thanks for the ferry suggestions, Trainlady. A few we've tried but the others are something to look forward to!
As to airplanes, as planes become bigger and presumably better they're not quite as interesting, especially if in the center seat. But a transatlantic flight in a 747 business class courtesy of BA was outstanding. Now if all flights were like that, good by Amtrak.
But, aside from that trip, my better airplane trips were in my college days when you could travel on a half fare student rate. And, if coach was full, they put you in 1st.
My last prop flight (commuter flights don't count) was a DC-7 substituting for the regularly assigned jet on an American Washington to Memphis flight c. 1965/6. The take off and landing seemed so gentle compared to jets. The food, leg room, and service were great. Drinks before we took off (even in coach) and a steak dinner. The windows were large with curtains if I remember correctly.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thanks for the link to the two videos. They brought back some great memories of Kai Tak and "the Checkerboard". It was, even under perfect conditions, always a thrill ride landing there. The terminal itself was a disaster. A trip to/through Chek Lap Kok (the "new" HKG) is on my bucket list.
A cruise friend who is a retired PanAm/United F/A has be sending me critiques of the show. Most recently she commented that those "girls" would have been doing San Juan turns at that stage in their careers, the pilots were NEVER that young -- most were WWII or Korean War vets -- and hats, gloves and "Street Jackets" were NEVER worn for service and were removed and stowed as soon as the cabin door was shut.
The mockups they are using for the cabin interiors are far more spacious than the real thing. Getting three people in the forward galley on a 707 would be akin to stuffing a telephone booth. Am I dating myself??? (Vicki -- This does NOT require an answer!)
It's still sort of a fun show to watch.
Frank in overcast (again) and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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The current issue of National Geographic Traveler has an article about "the perfect airport". They cite great things about a number of airports that could be put together to make the dream airport. For transportation they mention both Narita and Chek Lap Kok. Train service is fast and relatively inexpensive. You can check in and check your bags in town and not see them again until you arrive at your destination.
Frank in still overcast and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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As long as we're talking about memorable flights:
Circa 1968: Miami to Marathon in the Keys on a Cape Air (I think) DC-3, sitting in the last row, and landing in a stiff and gusty crosswind. The pilot executed a perfect wing-low approach and flare, then kicked the nose the rest of the way with a tromp on the rudder pedal, touching down with a small thunk. I really felt that last maneuver. Those old DC-3s could wag their tails.
Circa 1984-5: JFK to De Gaulle in an Air France 747 first class, as a press guest of the airline. Since then I have never eaten so well, or partaken of such classic wines. (However, the head flight attendant, taking note of my deafness, asked if I would like to be met at the door by a wheelchair. I never quite figured that one out.)
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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I grew up near the Boeing plant that manufactured the 707 and I clearly remember how loud and smokey those planes were. When a 707 flew over the house all conversation would stop, we'd watch the windows rattle and hope that there wouldn't be a sonic boom.
One legendary moment in Seattle history is the 1955 barrel roll by a 707 prototype over Lake Washington during Seafair. (There's a video inside the link).
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Well, we might as well continue on this aviation theme.
This just in from today's United Daily, the employee newsletter. The comments are about Jeff Smisek's meeting with employees yesterday in LA.
Jeff meets with LAX co-workers Jeff met with more than 300 co-workers at the LAX Airport Marriott Monday. He talked about our progress integrating our two airlines, training on SHARES, our combined passenger service system (PSS), and new products and services for our customers. He also spoke about the excitement surrounding the delivery of our first Boeing 787 aircraft in 2012: “It will be a great airplane,” Jeff said. “We will be the first North American airline to have the Dreamliner, three years in advance of any of our U.S. competitors. This will give us a spectacular product and a lot of flexibility with our fleet in the coming years.” Jeff’s next CEO Exchange is Tuesday, Nov. 8, at the Crowne Plaza Denver International Airport Hotel.
Six 787's are scheduled to be delivered to UHC in 2012.
Frank in still dark and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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My favorite flight was Rapid City to Minneapolis with stops in Pierre and Sioux Falls. Now if they had stopped in every town in between I would have been really happy. And if only the windows would open. I guess I'm just not the airplane type.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: As long as we're talking about memorable flights:
Circa 1968: Miami to Marathon in the Keys on a Cape Air (I think) DC-3, sitting in the last row, and landing in a stiff and gusty crosswind. The pilot executed a perfect wing-low approach and flare, then kicked the nose the rest of the way with a tromp on the rudder pedal, touching down with a small thunk. I really felt that last maneuver. Those old DC-3s could wag their tails.
Fast forward to 2009. Driving back from my son's wedding in Key West, we passed the Marathon airport. Sitting there looking very spiffy was a DC-3 painted for Ozark airlines. Have no idea what it was all about but almost drove off the road. Went back to take a few photos.
My first flight was a grandmother treat in a Ozark Airlines DC-3 for the 40 miles from Clarksville to Nashville Berry Field in the mid 50's. Sure beat the long drive on a very hilly US 41A.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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That was probably the DC-3 belonging to the Prairie Air Museum in Bloomington, Ill. Theirs was restored to Ozark colors.
Back in 2009 Oshkosh hosted at least six and maybe seven DC-3s and C-47s. Quite a sight.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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The current issue of National Geographic Traveler has an article about "the perfect airport". They cite great things about a number of airports that could be put together to make the dream airport. For transportation they mention both Narita and Chek Lap Kok. Train service is fast and relatively inexpensive. You can check in and check your bags in town and not see them again until you arrive at your destination.
Frank in still overcast and cool SBA
I don't know about the 'perfect airport' but one particularly pleasant one is the Tri-Cities airport between Bristol and Johnson City (and Kingsport too), Tennessee.
Long-term parking is as close as 75 yards from the door, the small main terminal has high ceilings and lot's of windows letting in natural light, and when meeting incoming passengers there is even a second level observation deck where you can spot the incoming planes and follow their progress to the runway.
You just don't see that kind of thing most places anymore.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: All I could think 'can this thing hold enough gas for a non-stop?'
I have one personal "low fuel" experience during a flight from LAX to the old Beijing National 'port (the one Nixon flew to for the historic meetings with Chairman Mao.) It was my 2nd China trip in 1997. Aircraft was a Lockheed wide; I think it was called an L-1011? (I do not have good "plane knowledge" like many here.) Carrier was China Eastern. Aircraft seemed to be struggling as it worked north and west through the West Coast East Asia vectors...by Anchorage the pilot set her into some lazy circles above the Denali range above Anchorage, AK.
Everyone wondered what was up as we watched the razor-sharp escarpments of the mountains below. He set the plane down gently and finally told us we "needed more fuel" for the run to Beijing, due to strong headwinds between LAX and Alaska. We stayed on the ground for about 45 minutes. Couldn't get off, of course. Then took off and continued without incident to Beijing. It was an interesting incident and we were all glad we got the "extra fuel."
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Note: the link to the Pacific Southwest page was with intent to show a carrier (acquired by USAir only to be "broken up") that probably was the forerunner to what has become, favorable and otherwise, of the air transport industry today.
From one for whom PSA is a "been there done that", they were just a ride - a reliable ride - but just a ride.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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As someone who flew PSA many, many, many times I think you must have been asleep. It was FAR more than "just a ride".
My first airline flight EVER was on a PSA DC4 from SFO to BUR. We encountered turbulence over the Tehachapis and, being unpressurized, lots of people got sick. Not this 12 year old, though. But I did vow I would never fly again and would much prefer the Coast or San Joaquin Daylight for our annual trip to San Francisco.
In later years I flew on the Electra and 727-100 and 200. Fares were usually in the $11.00 to $16.00 range each way. I never made it onto the L1011.
PSA, many said, stood for "Poor Sailors' Airline" because of the traffic between San Diego, Los Angeles and San Francisco.
And then there were the Stewardesses in hot pants and boots...
Bob--
I'm betting that was an MD11 not an L1011. The former was an evolution of the DC10 and the latter Lockheed's competition to the DC10 that never really made it.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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GBN, Those hostess outfits didn't do anything for you?
And in the link, there's mention of a lower lounge.I don't remember ever seeing one of those.
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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It was there but I believe there was a restriction on it being occupied during take off or landing. It was basically the space used by some carriers (TWA comes to mind) as galley space with two elevators -- one for food and one for crew.
Frank in still sunny and warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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This non-air fan is off to try the new style airline tomorrow. Taking Smitty's favorite Virgin America to Fort Lauderdale to connect with our civilized, ocean going form of transportation.
Wish us luck.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Bon Voyage to you both! You know I'll be hoping for the occasional report from along the way. Two transatlantics on one cruise is something very special!!
Frank in dark and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Well, as a follow-up to the event that prompted this admittedly off-topic thread, here are videos and narrative of the first All Nippon RJAA (NRT)-PHHH (HKG) revenue 787 flight.
And finally, on another air travel related point; presently Starz, through its Movieplex On-Demand outlet, is offering through Oct 31, several of the "Airports'. Forget the sequels with barrel rolling Concordes and submerged 747's (can't believe James Stewart needed to earn a buck that bad to have a role in that one), but the original 1970 vintage does offer a glimpse of how air travel was (pretty close to real) during the '60's - what with airports with few crowds, courteous personnel, and NO security (with bad results in this flick).
But, alas on the downside, indiscriminate "exhaust" of the "foul fog" - on the ground and in-flight.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Wall Street Journal reports on a recent "Gathering of the Skygods"Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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