RailForum.com
TrainWeb.com

RAILforum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» RAILforum » Passenger Trains » Amtrak » Letter to Mr. Alex Kummant (hopeful to get a response)

   
Author Topic: Letter to Mr. Alex Kummant (hopeful to get a response)
Steve O.
Full Member
Member # 2993

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve O.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
June 3, 2008


Mr. Alexander Kummant
President and CEO
National Railroad Passenger Corporation
60 Massachusetts Avenue, N.E.
Washington D.C 20002


Dear Mr. Kummant,


I have been a follower and supporter of Amtrak for as long as I can remember. Growing up in New Orleans, I was very fortunate to live in a city with an excellent Amtrak network. And one of the happiest days that I can remember was on April 4th, 1993, when Amtrak's Sunset Limited inaugurated its first ever service east of New Orleans. Finally, I thought, a key piece of Amtrak's national route map was completed. Indeed, I was never happier for Amtrak, for New Orleans, and for the Gulf Coast in general. It was truly a milestone moment: the inauguration of America’s first transcontinental train. The pioneers who drilled that final spike at Promontory Point would have been mighty proud.

In January 2004, I rode the Sunset for the first time between Orlando and New Orleans. It would end up being a memorable ride (first time ever in a Sleeping car), and one which caused me to learn more about the history of the Sunset Limited and to gain a better understanding of the train…where it has been, where it was, and where it was going. Being an Amtrak loyalist, I knew the train had its issues…namely excessive tardiness caused by poor Union Pacific dispatching between Lake Charles and Los Angeles. Indeed I cringed on numerous occasions when I saw that the Sunset Limited was eighteen hours late into New Orleans and the Orlando passengers had to be bussed. But though it all, I knew that things would work out for the train. After all, it had been riding the rails since 1894. It had seen it all…robberies, wrecks, and vandals on the tracks. The train, above all else, was a survivor.

In mid October '05, I learned with great interest that the Sunset Limited would be returning to New Orleans for the first time in over two months. I was already at the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal to welcome the arrival of the inaugural post-Katrina Crescent and City of New Orleans trains. But I wanted to go all out for the return of trains 1 and 2. I wanted to be on that first run. So, I convinced my work to let me have off for a few days, and I bought a one-way NOL to LAX ticket on the inaugural run. The date: November 4th, 2005. I was one of only around 25 passengers who boarded the train that day, and I was the first passenger to have a meal in the diner. I fondly recall that the chef came upstairs and shook my hand, congratulated me, and welcomed me aboard. I truly felt appreciated as a customer and above that, as an Amtrak devotee, I was proud that the company had proven its devotion to the then still troubled city of New Orleans. I enjoyed the on-time journey to LAX and began wondering when the Sunset would resume its full route, knowing that CSX was in the process of restoring the tracks between New Orleans and Biloxi.

As the months progressed, and well after the CSX railroad had been rebuilt, I became disheartened by the fact that I saw little progress in restoring the “Sunset East”. The only information I saw on the train was in the Amtrak national timetable…just a simple message stating a service suspension based on infrastructure damage from Katrina. I thought, "Ok, I'll give it a year. In a year's time, the train will once again be serving New Orleans - Orlando". Sadly, that has not happened as of yet. Every month I wait patiently to hear about a resumption of service, and one never comes. And for the life of me I just do not understand it. All I see now is the "future service has not been determined" message, and read about how Amtrak spokespeople say the same thing in public. How can it not be determined after nearly three years? The Sunset Limited had its problems before Katrina to be certain, but most of those can be attributed to poor on time performance. I recall numerous trips where the train never even made it to Orlando due to lateness. That will drive passengers away. There was a time there in ‘04/’05 when the train was consistently seven to ten hours late into New Orleans….hardly a dependable or reliable service. But as I’m sure you know, as of late, the time keeping between LAX and NOL has improved quite a bit. Indeed, the way the train has been running, if it had its old schedule out of New Orleans to Florida with the 10:30pm departure time (or even cut back to, say, 7:30pm), it wouldn’t miss that schedule out of New Orleans by one minute.

I think the resumption of the Sunset Limited service between New Orleans and Orlando would be beneficial, if done correctly, for the American traveling public as a whole. Besides proving that Amtrak is dedicated to the region and to its position as America’s only long distance intercity rail provider, it would reduce travel time between California and Florida by one full night…it would once again restore service to the booming Mississippi Gulf Coast region…it would give people along the Gulf Coast quick and easy access to New Orleans for a vacation or convention…it would offer additional and easier access from Amtrak’s Chicago hub to Florida…and it would proudly restore America's first and only transcontinental rail link. I remember how Amtrak took great pride in the expansion of the train back in 1993. I just wish I would see Amtrak take pride in it now. Indeed, I see the Sunset Limited as just "hanging on". And it's a shame, too, because the train, in my humble opinion, has a lot of potential. I'd love to see that potential realized, and an easy way of doing that would be to restore and enhance service east of New Orleans.

The Gulf South region is growing and rebounding. Amtrak has a chance to be part of the renaissance of the region. The people in the area need more transportation options, not less. There are approximately 1.8 million potential customers between Bay St. Louis and Lake City who are without any rail service. All of those cities have stations (except for Mobile…but really, how hard would it be to put a temporary station up there until firm plans are made?) which are sitting there collecting dust. That's quite a shame. Amtrak, in my view, just doesn't seem to care about what happens in regards to its service to those cities. No, they may not have produced a lot of rider ship in the past…but again, I wonder if improved on time performance would help out those passenger figures? My hunch is that the numbers would go up. Also, I am well aware of the idea of state sponsored train service. I get the feeling that Amtrak is not canceling the portion east of New Orleans outright because it is waiting to see if the states along the way will pick up the tab, and it does not want to lose the traffic rights on the route. While I am normally a huge proponent of state sponsored rail service…and it has proven to be effective in many areas of the country…in my view, this should not be a state sponsored service. This was a regular part of the national intercity network prior to the hurricane. Why should that change now?

To sum up, Mr. Kummant, I am devoted to this cause to no end. I just believe it is something worth fighting for, since I believe it has real value. In fact, as a show of my dedication, I have started a grass roots movement to drum up support for this train along the Gulf Coast. I call it the “Rail Up” movement, aka, Save the Sunset. It is entirely funded by me, and it is something which I take great pride in doing. Of course, I am a realist, as well. I know the constant struggle for funding which Amtrak has to go through year upon year (which is a real national embarrassment in my opinion), I know that not all causes can be won, and I wonder just how much of a difference I can actually make when all is said and done.

In the end, I really would like to see some more interest in this train on the part of Amtrak. It is the oldest named train in America, and has served its clientele well for years. I'm just afraid that as time moves on and this train isn't extended back to Florida, it will continue to linger on much as it has for the past few years, and ultimately be phased out of the Amtrak route system. Treated properly, the Sunset Limited could once again regain its former luster. If the Empire Builder can be re-launched successfully, so can this train. Don't let the past go down the drain. It's time to "Rail Up" and save the train from joining the ranks of the Broadway Limited, Floridian, National Limited, North Coast Hiawatha, and others…all great trains which were put out to pasture well before their time. I urge you to consider every possible option for the restoration of this service, and I thank you for taking the time to read this letter.


Sincerely,


Stephen Oliveri
Amtrak rider since 1984

--------------------
Good morning America, how are ya?

44,950 Amtrak rail miles traveled since August 18, 2003.

Posts: 135 | From: Atlanta, GA / New Orleans, LA | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
From my computer table in my home office, e.g. I'm back--

That is a well written letter, Mr. Oliveri, and I commend your zeal for taking the time to prepare it.

You will get a response, but it will appear quite "canned".

Personally, I respect your zeal and enthusiasm, even if I disagree with your premises set forth to Mr. Kummant. As I have repeatedly noted here at the forum, the LD system exists for one reason only; it is the catalyst for Federal level funding on any service - most particularly the only service that really counts.

And I think we all know that means the NECorridor.

Sunset East was deemed expendable as its absence has not affected the legislative majority, i.e. the 218+51+1 Mr. Pullman has often noted here, needed to obtain the $1.4B annual appropriation.

Posts: 9397 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
HillsideStation
Full Member
Member # 6386

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for HillsideStation     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with the learned Mr. Norman. But I would be remiss if I didn't relate my thoughts as I read the letter and before I saw Mr. Norman's comments.

It is/was a fine document for this forum; it was not, in my opinion, a fine document as a letter to the corporate CEO. I learned a long time ago, somewhere around 1966 that a good business letter can be no more than three paragraphs that take up less than a full page of 8 1/2 X 11.

Oh, there can interesting business letters that take up more space, the one in question being a prime example. However the primary reason to write such a letter is to have it read by the addressee. I doubt that Mr. Kummant will ever see the document. All the more of a shame, because he should.

Best regards,
Rodger

Posts: 112 | From: Merrimac, MA | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
notelvis
Full Member
Member # 3071

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for notelvis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rodger,

I tend to agree that shorter would be better if this letter is going to make it to the top of the food chain at Amtrak HQ.

I also agree that it is a fine letter. Stephen, in this age of computers and 'cut & paste' I think you should also address this letter only slightly modified to the op/ed folks at newspapers in cities that the Sunset East once served and also with the offices of Congresmen and Senators who represent constituents along the route of the Sunset East.

--------------------
David Pressley

Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!

Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes.

Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RRRICH
Full Member
Member # 1418

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for RRRICH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stephen -- good letter, but WAY TOO LONG!!!!!!!!


I believe you could summarize the jist of what you want to say to Mr. Kummant in about 3 paragraphs maximum.........

--"Railroad Rich" Kimmel

Posts: 2427 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
palmland
Full Member
Member # 4344

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for palmland     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is a good, well thought out letter. However in the current issue of Passenger Train Journal there is an interview with Kummant.

In response to a question on restoring Sunset service he said "the east end [NOL-Florida] can't really come back. We have to finish the final accounting there, but the resources are gone, the funding is gone, and it was never very good service, though people have rosy memories. It came through three times a week at night in many cases, with horrible on time performance. It's just time for everyone to get over it."

I think the best option to restoring service is for everyone to put their energy behind the state groups who are interesting in restoring a state sponsored service over portions of it. On that subject Kummant said " ..we've had a lot of robust discussions with Florida on corridors, and I think we have to look at Mobile to New Orleans."

Posts: 2394 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
irishchieftain
Full Member
Member # 1473

Icon 1 posted      Profile for irishchieftain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But he made the Acela run on time...!

Kummant's legacy is shaping up poorly indeed. He now shows flashes of his true nature, in the arrogance reflected in saying such things as "(it's) just time for everyone to get over it". Whom are you serving, Alex? Certainly is not the passengers.

Kummant is certainly reminiscent of the kind of people that have been running SEPTA of late; former head Faye Moore and current head Joe Casey have been making statements eerily similar to Kummant's gaffe.

Posts: 539 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
amtraxmaniac
Full Member
Member # 2251

Icon 1 posted      Profile for amtraxmaniac     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It was never a good service (Sunset East) because of severe neglect and lack of investment. There would be plenty of interest in the route if it was a reliable product. Potential customers in the southeast shouldn't have to suffer simply because Amtrak provided a crappy product to begin with. For Amtrak to blame anything other than their OWN lack of vision is shameful. Kummant's comments are both misguided and arrogant.

Invest in the Sunset East and people WILL ride it in masses.

--------------------
Patrick

Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lest we forget, Sunset East with its 21hr+ Orlando-New Orleans timing (if and when it was OT) is not even in the league with drive time. The Rich Kids From Sunnyvale report 9'26", but sometimes I think their times are a bit optimistic. 10hrs drive time is more like it (or at least the way I drive it is), add 1hr for rest and fuel, and we are talking 11hrs. Admittedly, that is as far as I will consider for a one day drive.

21hrs was not even in the league.

It is into that environment we are addressing restoring a service that Amtrak has done well enough without, i.e. there have been no 'earmarks' on any appropriation conditioning such on Sunset East's restoral - not even a "study".

Again I respect your zeal, Mr. Oliveri; why not direct such towards what 21st Century passenger rail is all about - Corridors and Commuters.

Posts: 9397 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gp35
Full Member
Member # 3971

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for gp35     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
How about running a seperate train on that route at a marketable time schedule. Also run it west to Dallas via KCS line. Dallas/FW to Florida. Sounds good to me.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CHATTER
Full Member
Member # 1185

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for CHATTER     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Agreed. This is a fine missive, a rapidly vanishing species in this age of instant communication. Having said that, it could use much time in the editing room, if any reply is desired. I would recommend dropping the personal vignettes and paring the text back to what would fit on a single page. I applaud this effort on your part.
Posts: 255 | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
irishchieftain
Full Member
Member # 1473

Icon 1 posted      Profile for irishchieftain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:

Lest we forget, Sunset East with its 21hr+ Orlando-New Orleans timing (if and when it was OT) is not even in the league with drive time. The Rich Kids From Sunnyvale report 9'26", but sometimes I think their times are a bit optimistic. 10hrs drive time is more like it (or at least the way I drive it is), add 1hr for rest and fuel, and we are talking 11hrs. Admittedly, that is as far as I will consider for a one day drive.

21hrs was not even in the league

How many people make sixteen intermediate stops when driving between Orlando and New Orleans? On average, that's a stop every 35 miles, but stations on the Sunset's route east of NO were closer together. I wonder if any automobile drivers would be able to maintain a 30-mph average speed, having to make so many stops, and driving on local roads instead of on highways with a 70-mph speed limit.

I have myself wondered what the "Limited" in the Sunset Limited referred to, because it certainly does not mean limited station stops. Limited frequency, maybe?
quote:
It is into that environment we are addressing restoring a service that Amtrak has done well enough without, i.e. there have been no 'earmarks' on any appropriation conditioning such on Sunset East's restoral - not even a "study"
This is not the day and age to be looking at what rail service can be "do(ne) without".
quote:
Again I respect your zeal, Mr. Oliveri; why not direct such towards what 21st Century passenger rail is all about - Corridors and Commuters
That isn't what intercity passenger rail in the 21st Century is about at all. That aspect of passenger rail is about speed. At least outside the USA, that's what intercity passenger rail is about.

"Corridors" (so-called; at least the US catchprase) and commuter rail ought to be so commonplace as to be taken for granted, rather than talked about.

Posts: 539 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RRRICH
Full Member
Member # 1418

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for RRRICH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Irish -- I believe "Limited" is a designation from the heyday of rail back in the 20's and 30's, where a "limited" train typically was "limited" to 1st class only (sleeper) -- railroads that had "limited" trains back then also had other trains on the same routes, which were not "limited," but included all classes of service.

Why AMTRAK has kept that silly designation over the years, I do not know -- maybe they think it makes the train sound "elegant."

Posts: 2427 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Concur with Mr. Rich's explanation; In order to tag a train with the name Limited, there should be not less than "two a day' - something non existent anywhere on the LD system, save NE-Florida (likely next in line for a 'pruning' resulting with the Adios drumhead on the Meteor).

Quiz: What's an Extra Fare (active pre-A-Day riders need not respond).

Posts: 9397 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PullmanCo
Full Member
Member # 1138

Icon 1 posted      Profile for PullmanCo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lest we forget,

The Sunset Limited was once the premier train of the Southern Pacific Railroad. Prior to World War II, it ran from San Francisco to New Orleans.

War Transportation Office directives eliminated the SF-LA portion of the run in 1942.

Sunset Magazine? It was originally published as the onboard publication for the train.

Posts: 1392 | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steve O.
Full Member
Member # 2993

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve O.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello all,

Thanks for the responses.

The letter was sent off basically as is. I threw in a small "disclaimer" in the beginning stating that I realize that his time is valuable and but if I made it shorter I would not be doing it justice.

So, the ball is in Mr. Kummant's court. I would of course like a reply, but if not, that's ok. I didn't want to compromise what I wanted to say by reducing the length. Everything in the letter has meaning.

Also, I am supporting the Sunset East because corridor service in the Southeast, at least, seems to be a long way off. This would at least fill the gap before more comprehensive plans can be made.

Thanks again for the support to all interested, and should I hear back from Mr. Kummant, I will post here.


Stephen

--------------------
Good morning America, how are ya?

44,950 Amtrak rail miles traveled since August 18, 2003.

Posts: 135 | From: Atlanta, GA / New Orleans, LA | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
royaltrain
Full Member
Member # 622

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for royaltrain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RRRICH:
[QB] Irish -- I believe "Limited" is a designation from the heyday of rail back in the 20's and 30's, where a "limited" train typically was "limited" to 1st class only (sleeper) -- railroads that had "limited" trains back then also had other trains on the same routes, which were not "limited," but included all classes of service.

My understanding of Limited, when applied to a passenger train, is that it made only a limited number of stops and was used only on the railway's premier trains.

Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RRRICH
Full Member
Member # 1418

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for RRRICH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't know, Royal -- maybe the term had different meanings in the U.S. and Canada???
Posts: 2427 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gilbert B Norman
Full Member
Member # 1541

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gilbert B Norman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Concur with Mr. Royal (either side of the 49th notwithstanding) , Mr. Rich.

Although the Broadway Limited, Twentieth Century Limited, and the Panama Limited were all titled as such, The Pittsburgher, The Crescent, and the Super Chief were not.

Again I note that in order to properly have one train named the Limited, there need be "two a day".

Posts: 9397 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
palmland
Full Member
Member # 4344

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for palmland     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
After reviewing a 1935 Official Guide, I think the only thing that we can say for sure is that the Limited was often used primarily, but not solely, on the flagship trains on each railroads' key routes. And yes, they generally made fewer stops.

After the introduction of the streamliners in the 30's the name became less popular as trains like the Super Chief, City of...., Silver Meteor, and California Zephyr were introduced. Perhaps this was because it became less necessary to distinguish between look alike trains of a string of heavyweight pullmans as the public was enamored of the modern, sleek, silver trains with their own distinctive equipment and names.

Posts: 2394 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RRRICH
Full Member
Member # 1418

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for RRRICH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Gil -- you concurred with me above after my first explanation of the "limited" being "limited to sleeper," then you concurred with Mr. Royal about the "limiteds" making fewer stops.

So, I guess a "limited" train was limited to sleepers only AND made fewer stops AND had at least 2 sections a day, right?

Posts: 2427 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PullmanCo
Full Member
Member # 1138

Icon 1 posted      Profile for PullmanCo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Number of sections comes from reservations. In the HW era (and even into the LW era), there was enough rolling stock that if 1st 17 sold out, the railroad could create 2d 17.
Posts: 1392 | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ehbowen
Full Member
Member # 4317

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for ehbowen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In my experience, "Limited" means primarily limited stops; it does not necessarily refer to "first class only"—although, if a railroad did operate a first class only train, it was probably a limited.

The Sunset Limited, for example, was a coach-and-Pullman train even in the heavyweight days before WWII. As an example, in September 1938 it made 23 stops westbound across Texas between Orange and El Paso (inclusive). Its opposite number, the Argonaut, made 53 stops over the same stretch, or more than twice as many.

When the last vestige of the Argonaut was canceled in the late '50s/early '60s, the Southern Pacific stripped the "Limited" designation from the train; in the timetables it was listed simply as "Streamliner Sunset". It was not until Amtrak days that it regained its full title as "Sunset Limited".

--------------------
--------Eric H. Bowen

Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!

Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Home Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2




Copyright © 2007-2016 TrainWeb, Inc. Top of Page|TrainWeb|About Us|Advertise With Us|Contact Us