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The day has finally come. I am once again heading on vacation aboard a train. It has only been about 8 years since the last time I rode the rails.
Here is the breakdown: 1) Fly out to Los Angeles 2) Coast Starlight to Emeryville/San Francisco 3) California Zephyr to Chicago 4) Fly back home to St. Louis
Since I've become somewhat of a greenhorn when it comes to trains, I ask for the forums answers/opinions to a few questions.
1)First off, I'd love to hear some opinions about the trip itinerary. Am I going the best direction on the CZ and CS or should we go in reverse order(CHI to SF to LA to Home)?
2)Does the Coast Starlight feature a parlour car on every trip? I'd be pretty upset if I made it out there and there wasn't a parlour car.
3)Just to clarify, if we leave Emeryville on the CZ on August 9th, we'll be detoured through Wyoming? But if we leave on August 10th, we'll take the normal route?
4)Anyone know of any good hotels in Los Angeles and San Francisco? I'm not sure where to stay. I've heard downtown LA isn't all that special.
5)Are there many cabs waiting at the Emeryville station that can drive us into San Francisco when we arrive?
6)I know the Starlight can be pretty late sometimes. How bad does it get going from LA to Emeryville? Is that where most of the time is lost?
Thanks for any help you guys can offer!
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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There is a dedicated bus to/from Emeryville or Oakland. Look at the schedule folder. You should be able to be through ticketed into San Francisco and not have to use a taxi to cross the bay.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by UncleBuck44: 1)First off, I'd love to hear some opinions about the trip itinerary. Am I going the best direction on the CZ and CS or should we go in reverse order(CHI to SF to LA to Home)?
While it is probably too late to rebook your Sleeper space during the peak travel season, but the general consensus is that the WB ride on #5, CZ, is superior to that of EB #6. While #6 offers a Daylight ascent of the Wasatch range, the Rockies will be traversed at best dusk and most likely during darkness.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by UncleBuck44: 1)First off, I'd love to hear some opinions about the trip itinerary. Am I going the best direction on the CZ and CS or should we go in reverse order(CHI to SF to LA to Home)?
While it is probably too late to rebook your Sleeper space during the peak travel season, but the general consensus is that the WB ride on #5, CZ, is superior to that of EB #6. While #6 offers a Daylight ascent of the Wasatch range, the Rockies will be traversed at best dusk and most likely during darkness.
Actually I was planning on making the arrangements tonight or tomorrow. Everything is just in order as of right now(time off from work, scheduling, etc.) and there is a room available on both trains(CZ and CS).
I'm looking at the schedule now and it says we'd get into Denver at 7:38 PM. Wouldn't we have seen most of the best scenary in Colorado by that time? Or is the best stuff still to come after departing Denver?
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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Scenery to the East of Denver?, "if you've seen one head of cattle grazin', you've seen 'em all"
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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If the train is runing late you will miss the scenery. From sad experience I can tell you it seems as if it usually is late.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Gil is right about the scenery east of Denver . It is not spectactular as it is west But you ceoss the Mississippi, and there are small towns that to me are interesting. You might print out the route guide or the CZ. You will find it interesting and informative.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by UncleBuck44: I'm looking at the schedule now and it says we'd get into Denver at 7:38 PM. Wouldn't we have seen most of the best scenary in Colorado by that time? Or is the best stuff still to come after departing Denver?
Did you catch my topic on the CZ between Emeryville & Denver that I did recently?
Shortly after leaving Denver east you very quickly hit the plains as well as night fall; call it a night. The train is often late so keep that in mind when the Dinner Call comes and where you are at on the train, the views going into Denver are great so have a good seat.
Posts: 256 | From: Centennial, Colorado | Registered: Jul 2002
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<<<2)Does the Coast Starlight feature a parlour car on every trip? I'd be pretty upset if I made it out there and there wasn't a parlour car.>>>
Most of the time, yes, it has a Parlour Car. If for some reason it does not have one, they ALMOST always substitute a different car (usually a cross country cafe car OR a Superliner Lounge). It would be very rare this summer if there is no separate lounge car for the sleeper passengers.
<<<3)Just to clarify, if we leave Emeryville on the CZ on August 9th, we'll be detoured through Wyoming? But if we leave on August 10th, we'll take the normal route?>>>
From Amtrak.com:
Service Alert: Motorcoach Service To and From Most Stations Between Denver and Salt Lake City Select Dates Through September 24
Due to track work being performed by Union Pacific Railroad, California Zephyr Trains 5 and 6 will operate on an alternate route between Denver, CO, and Salt Lake City, UT select dates beginning July 1 - September 24, 2009.
Effective Dates
July 1 - July 9 July 16 - July 24 August 1 - August 9 August 16 - August 24 September 1 - September 9 September 16 - September 24 On these dates the trains will travel along the detour from Denver to Salt Lake City. Westbound Train 5 from Chicago and eastbound Train 6 from Emeryville, Calif., originate one day earlier.
The train will detour through southern Wyoming affecting service at stations between Denver and Salt Lake City. To accommodate this project, service changes have been made that will affect passengers boarding or detraining at the stations shown below.
Fraser-Winter Park, CO Granby, CO Glenwood Springs, CO Grand Junction, CO Green River, UT Helper, UT Provo, UT During this period, Trains 5 and 6 will not travel through the Rocky Mountains or follow the Colorado River. The detour will follow a portion of the historic transcontinental Union Pacific route completed in 1869 that offers views of broad vistas, wildlife and high plains.
Westbound Train 5: Chicago to Emeryville
Train 5 will operate on its normal route to Denver. At Denver, the train will travel through southern Wyoming, and will not make any stops between Denver and Salt Lake City, as described below. The train will resume its normal route from Salt Lake City to Emeryville.
Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction Service Changes
Passengers on westbound Train 5 who are destined for Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction on the dates of the reroute will be provided motorcoach service from Denver to those stations. The motorcoach departures are not the same as the scheduled train departures. Westbound Train 5 will arrive at Denver at 7:15 am where passengers will transfer to the Motorcoach, which departs Denver at 7:45 am, arrives at Glenwood Springs at 11 am, and Grand Junction at 12:45 pm. No service will be provided for westbound passengers boarding at Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction on the dates of the reroute. Fraser-Winter Park, Granby, Green River, Helper and Provo Service Cancellations
On the days of the reroute, no service will be provided to or from Fraser/Winter Park, CO, Granby, CO, and Green River, Helper or Provo, UT. Eastbound Train 6: Emeryville to Chicago
Train 6 will operate on its normal route to Salt Lake City. The train will detour at Salt Lake City and travel through soutern Wyoming, not making any stops between Salt Lake City and Denver, as described below. The train will resume its normal route from Denver to Chicago.
Grand Junction and Glenwood Springs Service Change
Passengers boarding at Grand Junction and Glenwood Springs on the dates of the reroute will be provided motorcoach service to Denver, where they will board eastbound Train 6 destined for Chicago and intermediate stations. The motorcoach departures are not the same as the scheduled train departures. The motorcoach will depart Grand Junction at 1:30 pm, Glenwood Springs at 3:25 pm and arrive at Denver at 6:25 pm, where passengers may board eastbound Train 6, which arrives at 8:10 pm. On the days of the reroute, no service will be provided for eastbound passengers destined for Grand Junction and Glenwood Springs on the dates of the reroute. Service Cancellations at Provo, Helper, Green River, Granby and Fraser-Winter Park
On the days of the reroute, no service will be provided at Provo, Helper, Green River, Granby or Fraser-Winter, Park. We appreciate your patience and apologize for any inconvenience you may experience. For reservations and information, please visit Amtrak.com or call 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).
Sooooooooooo.....to answer your question, if you leave EMY on August 9th, if I am reading everything correctly, than you will take the normal route of the Zephyr. However, if you left on August 8th, then you would be detoured via Wyoming. I hope I've got that right. I don't like the way Amtrak has that thing written. I checked Amtrak.com and plugged in a departure date of August 7th, August 8th, and August 9th....and no matter what date I put in, it comes back and gives me an August 9th departure (ignoring August 7th and 8th). The criteria I used was a trip from EMY to GSC (Glenwood Springs, CO).
<<<4)Anyone know of any good hotels in Los Angeles and San Francisco? I'm not sure where to stay. I've heard downtown LA isn't all that special.>>>
Los Angeles: Take the Red LIne (subway---entrance underneath Union Station) directly to Universal City. There is a nice Hilton and Sheraton at the top of the hill. Downtown Los Angeles: 3 minute taxi ride to the Omni. Since you are flying into LAX, why not pay a cheaper hotel rate and stay at the Airport Hilton? The next morning, either take a taxi all the way to Union Station (very expensive), or take the free shuttle bus from the Hilton (or any LAX hotel) back to the airport and take the "Fly Away" bus service to Union Station. The price just went up---I think it's 5 or 6 bucks now. ALLOW PLENTY OF TIME!!! MORNING RUSH HOUR TRAFFIC IN LOS ANGELES COULD MAKE YOU MISS YOUR TRAIN!!!
<<<5)Are there many cabs waiting at the Emeryville station that can drive us into San Francisco when we arrive?>>>
When you book your ticket with Amtrak, make sure you book the Amtrak Thruway bus. The bus will be waiting in front of the train station, and will take you to San Francisco (no need to pay a taxi). The bus stops at enough major locations that you can walk within a block or two to any hotel you want. The Hyatt Regency Embarcadero is nice (that's the hotel from the Mel Brooks movie, "High Anxiety"). I think the Amtrak bus stops there also, but double-check to be sure.
<<<6)I know the Starlight can be pretty late sometimes. How bad does it get going from LA to Emeryville? Is that where most of the time is lost?>>>
Both the Starlight and the Zephyr have been doing VERY well lately. If the train gets late, that will actually be a rare event. Freight traffic is down, and UP has been collecting their on-time bonus money from Amtrak, so it's been pretty good.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by UncleBuck44: 4)Anyone know of any good hotels in Los Angeles
I usually use the Metro Plaza, about a 5 minute walk from LA Union Station. It's run by friendly Chinese people and has safe, clean rooms. (213.680.0200.) I get 50 cents every time I send somebody over there. Just kidding...sounds like you have an interesting trip planned-- hope all goes well.
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Going back to the sunlight in Colrado discussion, with the Zephyr hopefully pulling into Denver around 7:40, do you think that'll leave enough sunlight to see the best attractions of Western Colorado?
Despite not making any reservations yet, I doubt we'll be able to flip the trip and start off in Chicago heading west on #5. I'll just have to hope the CZ isn't too late.
I should mention that we are going to be staying in Los Angeles for 4 days and San Francisco for 3 days so we'd like to stay in a hotel around these cities tourist friendly areas.
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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Do not rent a car in San Francisco. The buses run frequently and go everywhere. Many routes are electric trolley buses. Parking is expensive. Search San Francisco Muni and see what you come up with. I don't know their web site, but they and all the other transit agencies in this area have one. Go to the corner of Powell and Market for maps, passes, etc. In Market and running up to Pier 39 (Fisherman's Wharf) is the F route streetcar line which runs restored streetcars from literally everywhere. In fact, you can get it straight across the street from Amtrak's Ferry Building station. Riding a Golden Gate Transit Bus to Saulsalito (sp?) and taking a ferry back to the Ferry Building is a great way to see the harbor, Alcatraz Island, the bridges, etc.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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...and I'll add that for your 4 days in the City of Angels, you shouldn't have to rent a car there either-- unless you want to go to a far outlying area. Five bucks will get you an unlimited Day Pass on LA Metro-- which is most all the buses, all the light rail, and the heavy rail subway. This pass won't work on Metrolink heavy rail trains, or Amtrak, but still will get you to a lot of interesting places, and CHEAPLY. Please avoid the LA cabs, if you can...
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Uncle Buck, When I took the Zephyr eastbound two years ago, we were really late after the first night and it got dark by Glenwood Springs. And that was in late May, when days are longer than August, I think. So while I did see Ruby Canyon, I missed most of the Rockies. True, I did get to see the Bonneville Salt Flats and Great Salt Lake, but that did not compare to the Rockies! Last year I did a round trip on the Zephyr, got the regular route going out but the detour going back. I would say that lightwise etc the detour, which is not very scenic, is more scenic eastbound. So . . . if you can flip the Zephyr trip easily to make it westbound, I recommend it; but if the Zephyr is doing well lately as Smitty says, you probably will see everything eastbound too. The most important thing is, do not take the detour!!!!
As far as east of Denver, I agree, it's flat with cattle going to market, occasionally you might see a prairie dog pop its head from a hole . . . I still enjoy the observation car: I always bring a CD with cowboy songs and listen while I look, and I also meet fun people and chat. If you are very late you also might get into Lincoln NE in daylight (I did two years ago); the station has a cute water mill device or something like that (I vaguely recall) and you can see the capital, but it looks like an office building. (In case you are interested, Nebraska has the only unicameral state legislature.) Once you get into Iowa, there are farms (flooded terribly last year when I went through) and some nice hills, one or two interesting towns (e.g., Burlington), and crossing the Mississippi is always exciting for me.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Just booked the Coast Starlight portion of the trip. We'll be in roomette 8 in car 1432.
We were in room 14 but I saw that was on the lower level so I gave Amtrak a call to see if I could get us switched to the upper level. The agent I talked to was very nice about it.
Anyone know if this room will face the coast?
Also, what roomettes do you guys prefer? I've heard 9 and 10 can be noisy since its right next to the door.
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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No assurance whatever, Uncle Buck, as such is completely dependent on whether A or B end is forward.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Mr. Harris gave some very good advice on San Francisco. A rental car is not needed in the city.
Posts: 498 | From: New Hope, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Our favorite was always #4. It is away from the doors, the coffee and ice and the foyer where people gather to talk It is close enough to the upstairs bathroom for the middle of the night visits and far enoug away that you can't hear the door opening and shutting.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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That is what I figured, Gilbert B Norman. Thanks. I guess it doesn't matter much. I'll just head up to the parlour car and watch the coast.
Two more questions: 1) We are still looking for a hotel in San Francisco. I had a great rate at the Hilton at Fisherman's Wharf but it was gone in about 15 minutes. The price for the room has gone up 100 bucks a night so we are looking elsewhere. We'd like to stay around Fisherman's Wharf but we'd probably have better luck getting a cheap room closer to downtown. Any thoughts about staying in the downtown SF area? Is there much to do there?
2) What's up with Amtrak prices? We are planning to leave Emeryville on the Zephyr on a Tuesday and the price is $831. If we left on the day before(Monday) it'd cost $738. And if we left on the day after(Wednesday) it'd only cost $645.
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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Ah so the Tuesday train is nearly sold out? Hopefully some people cancel their reservations soon.
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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Scenery to the East of Denver?, "if you've seen one head of cattle grazin', you've seen 'em all"
I once heard a song by a guy who never made it off the nightclub circuit......you know, just a lonely guy and his guitar....
The song was titled 'Interstate 80; Iowa' and the lyrics were "Corn, corn, corn, corn, corn, corn, corn.....LOOK, a tree, corn, corn, corn, corn......"
That sums it up pretty nicely.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I've stayed at the Handlery Hotel in San Francisco a number of times. It's just a few steps from Union Square and the cable cars to Fisherman's Wharf. They have rooms in all price ranges, though the Club rooms overlooking the pool are the nicest. Enjoy the trip!
Posts: 103 | From: St. Louis, MO USA | Registered: Oct 2002
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Just one last question(no promises though):
Where is roomette 19 located?
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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Wow...I forgot to give a report. Now I feel like a jerk.
I'm going to go off sketchy memory as the trip has been over for almost a year. Overall it was fantastic. All the information you guys/gals gave was gold. Thank you so much.
I think the only mistake I made was not knowing to get off the Coast Starlight in Oakland for the Thruway bus. Instead we went to Emeryville and spent a little extra cash on a cab ride. At least we got to ride through Jack London square which was neat.
We stayed at the Hilton Universal City Hotel in Los Angeles(Smitty, you mentioned this hotel. We actually stayed there when we went to LA when I was real young in 1993). The room was great though the hotel was pretty far from everything. Plus there is a monster hill between the entrance and the subway station. But at least the station was close by.
We went to Universal Studios, the Santa Monica Pier, a Dodgers game, Philippe's....most of the major tourist attractions except Disney Land. We also ate at In-N-Out Burger about 3 or 4 times. Haha. Not exactly fine dining but we don't have them in St. Louis. RailroadBob, you were completely right about avoiding LA cabs. Getting from LAX to the hotel was pricey to say the least.
The ride on the Coast Starlight to Emeryville was wonderful. Luckily there was a Parlour car in the consist. We definitely took advantage of it. The train was right about on time into Emeryville.
In San Francisco we stayed at the Columbus Motor Inn. We had a really nice room though the hotel is nothing special as you might expect. The location and rate were perfect, though.
Among our activites in San Francisco were a strenuous bike ride to Sausalito(where we sort of got lost), a boat ride around the Bay, a walk to Castro Street/Haight-Ashbury/Golden Gate Park and another meal at In-N-Out Burger haha. Oh and of course trolley rides.
The weather was great in Los Angeles and San Francisco.
The trip to Chicago on the California Zephyr couldn't have been any better. The crew was very nice. The train was EARLY getting into every station before Nebraska settling all nerves I had about going through the Rockies at night. We had plenty of sunlight to snap photos and movies as we arrived into Denver about 30 minutes early.
We wound up arriving into Chicago about 10 minutes late as we had to wait for the WB Zephyr in Naperville so we could give them Dining Car supplies(or something like that).
Some comments about the train: -The food was really good. Everyone mentions the french toast and it didn't disappoint. I usually just had the burger for lunch. The beef that I normally had for dinner was outstanding. It tasted like pot roast and was delicious. I also had the herb roasted half chicken meal and it was great too. The dessert was also very good. I can't remember what it was called but it was a peanut butter and chocolate cake. I should have turned it down more than I did because of the calories but it was too darn good.
-First time sleeping on a train since 2001. The lower berth was fine. I only slept for about 4-5 hours as I never want to miss a moment on the train. But it was comfortable. The upper berth(I had it the second night on the CZ) was a little cramped. It's closer to the ceiling than I remember haha.
-We had a room in the crew car and it's really a great spot on the train. There's much less foot traffic and we kind of had our own bathroom on the upper level til Denver when most of the rooms filled up.
-Did they stop showing movies in the lounge car? I was waiting for them to throw on Homeward Bound or some G rated Disney movie but they didn't put anything on.
-I love trains but I was kind of glad to reach Chicago. Mostly because it's largely corn fields and grass from the time you wake up after the 2nd night til you reach Chicago when you're going eastbound. However, doing the marathon ride across country is such a great experience. I wanted to do it again after about a week.
Thanks again everyone! Sorry about the looooong delay.
-------------------- Heros get remembered, but Legends never die. Follow your heart and you'll never go wrong. Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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Better late than never! Looks like all the pins fell into place on this journey. Don't you love when that happens?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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