posted
I have, as well as others, wondered if we will see the VIA "Canadian" (Toronto to Vancouver) return to service. I couldn't help wondering if the VIA would use Covid 19 as an excuse for eliminating the train. However, the following quote is from the VIA website:
"Progressive resumption of service of the Canadian between Winnipeg and Vancouver as of December 11, 2020. A train will depart Winnipeg on Mondays, and another one will depart from Vancouver on Fridays. Due to COVID-19, we have had to make changes to our on board services and overall experience."
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I guess once-a-week service is better than zero service for the Canadian. What changes will there be for on board services? Changes in food service or sleeping accommodations? VIA says it plans to return the Canadian to regular service in April.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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However, I think the twenty car trains are "done for". The tour operators wont be aroind this Season, and when they resume service during '22, have simply moved on. With their tours offering an array of travel attractions, such as train-cruise-fly itineraries, they cannot accept 24 hour late trains.
Here's morePosts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I have taken it three times... and I think the issue VIA is dealing with is the fact very few Canadians actually take the Canadian. I would say the vast majority of people aboard all three trips we have done were either Brits, Americans, or Australians. Yes, a handful of Canadians, but mostly the above mentioned groups. With border restrictions, no one is getting in for the foreseeable future. Why would I bank my "big" 2021 vacation on VIA right now for a trip across Canada when more than likely the border restrictions could still be in place for a long time coming.
Posts: 169 | From: Northwest Wisconsin | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Mr. Tabern, I think you noted in your immediate one reason why the Canadian Government has been willing to subsidize this train - foreign exchange.
All these $,£,€,¥ coming in that you don't need to buy in the open market at a premium over the Loonie.
There is of course more of a reason, with tourism being a much greater piece of Canada's GNP than is same for the US, the travel industry has a bit more weight to throw around in Ottawa than does same here have in Washington.
However, I think that the Abercrombie & Kents, or the Taucks, in this world will have decided that "we can't live" with 24 hour late trains, and will look for alternate means to show their well-heeled clientele the scenic attractions of Canada.
I'm not sure what is proven with this "one a week" rendition from which the amenities (domes, full service dining) will be absent.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I just saw a couple of videos on You Tube where someone rode the Skeena and the Churchill Limited during the COVID era. The Skeena's dome was off limits and there was no food service on the Churchill. The videographer packed enough food for a couple of days, then called delivery pizza at a two hour layover at Thompson, I think. On both trains, the videúographer was almost the only passenger.
As far as the Canadian is concerned, terminating the train in Winnipeg might not be a bad thing. Winnipeg has air connections to much of the outside world, passengers won't spend days looking at muskeg crossing the Shield, and Winnipeg has enough one day attractions for the travelers arriving by air. If the train is late crossing the prairie, better to turn around in Winnipeg than to trundle on through no man's land. BTW, just where does the Canadian lose much of its time? If it loses it on the CN track between Toronto and Winnipeg,what a strong case for going back to the CP line!
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
A lot seemed to change on the Skeena Route between the first time I took it (2011) and the second time that I took it (2017). Blame seems to be on the much expanded port at Prince Rupert, BC.
We were maybe 1 hour late into Prince George the first night and ditto for Prince Rupert the second night on that 2011 trip.
The 2017 was just painful. Despite amazing scenery and getting to take my wife along with me on this one... it was painful. Literally for the entire trip -- it was go 20 miles, pull into a siding behind a freight train, let the eastbound go, back out of the siding because a freight was ahead of us, then go around said freight... and go 20 miles and do it all over again. 3 hours late into Prince George and a crazy 6 hours late into Prince Rupert. Both were daytrains and started on time in the morning.
It made the CN from Chicago to Carbondale look like the BNSF Racetrack.
I don't think I would do the Skeena anytime soon again unless there were drastic improvements.
We are thinking of maybe doing Hwy 16 which parallels the tracks in a car sometime when tourism is allowed. That would allow for more picnic stops and such.
Posts: 169 | From: Northwest Wisconsin | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I've said it around here before, and I'll say it again.
If "The Canadian" is to return, both CN and VIA ought to treat it as a "Passenger Extra". In short, it hasn't got a schedule; "gets there when it gets there".
If they do restore it for a 2X week frequency, simply identify the trains as #1 or #2 and A through H respectively. VIA is certainly able to give a passenger a four day "window" when, say, #1-A is expected to depart. Passengers would then book on whichever train should best meet their needs.
With Train Status and with virtual communication with anyone, anywhere, VIA would periodically advise passengers when the train is expected to leave their station; as the train gets closer, the more that time can be perfected. Within, say, six hours of expected departure, VIA could then give a "train will not leave before XXXXhr". Passengers could then make final arrangements to get to the station.
It is time for all concerned; VIA, CN, and passengers to accept that operating conditions no longer allow for it to be considered a scheduled train.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
As of today, VIA is still intending on resuming full service Vancouver - Toronto as of April. As some friends and I have a booking for early April we have a special interest in this.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
(My attempt at editing failed, so I had to enter this as a further post.)
Most of my trips have been in the "off-season" and on each of them the majority of passengers have been Canadian - even the few whom we have met in the Prestige section. If the Canadian does resume in April, I expect that all the passengers will be Canadians if the border restrictions are still in place.
The summer fares are quite steep (perhaps that is why thrifty Canadians travel outside the peak season) but with international travel uncertain at this time, many people may pay the fares as there is nowhere else to go. Maybe the fares will come down to encourage travel. In past years there have been deals even in the summer season.
Because of the restrictions on this winter's "short turn" Canadian, fares have been reduced by about a third. From what I hear from VIA staff, passenger loads have been very light. To provide plenty of space, there have been three coaches and four sleepers. As we know, the domes and lounge are off-limits and only two meals (cooked on board by the way) are being served in the dining car. Lunch is delivered to cabins. Coach passengers must stay in their seats and may purchase food and beverages from the trolley service.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
What is being operated right now is not the 'Canadian'. It is no different than the local to Jonquiere.....just providing a basic service to those that have to travel and for whatever reason can't fly or drive. IMHO there would be no enjoyment in riding this train when you are restricted to your accommodations. No mingling with other travelers and only getting out of your room for 2 meals/day. You're certainly not travelling to take in the scenery as you're seeing out one side of the train only! (At least the coach passenger has an advantage here!)
Here in the Maritimes it doesn't look like the 'Ocean' will be back anytime soon. For other than essential travel once you cross the Quebec-New Brunswick border and the New Brunswick-Nova Scotia border you must quarantine for 14 days.....so operationally it's just not practical to run the Ocean right now.
Things have been pretty good here although New Brunswick is seeing a spike in Covid. Yesterday in Nova Scotia (pop nearly 1 million) we had no new cases, 25 cases remain active and no one is in the hospital or ICU.
People are travelling but they are flying and many are still going south for the winter like they always have. Difference now....there will be a 14 day isolation when they return!
Posts: 239 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
The timekeeping of this "short turn" Canadian has been surprisingly good. Arrivals in Vancouver have frequently been two to four hours early. Today's arrival was four hours and two minutes early at 03:58 - and no, VIA doesn't throw you off on arrival. The previous arrival was 11 hours late due to a track blockage caused by mud and fallen trees.
Arrivals of #2 in Winnipeg haven't been so early, but half an hour early is common.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
VIA's Website now says that the full-route Canadian will not start until after May 15th. The Ocean is also available for booking for trips after that date.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Yeah but as always, those dates could be pushed back. Id bet pretty decent chance they will (or service curtailed, ie like the Canadian is now with no domes). Whenever they do run Id love to give em a ride. Ive already ridden the Canadian full route, want to do the Ocean so I can say ive gone coast to coast on VIA Rail.
Posts: 416 | From: St. Albans, Vermont | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
How can this "sorry excuse for transportation" ever continue?
Next train Saskatoon to Vancouver is Feb 2 depart 1150A; arrive 8A Feb 4, or 1 day 22h 10min.
By contrast, when I rode CN#9, Panorama, during June '65, that left 615P and arrived about 7P next day, 1 day 1hr 45min. Incidentally, my intent was to ride Winnipeg-Vancouver, but the Great Northern Winnipeg Limited "didn't make it in time", so it was "catch up" CYWG-CYXE on Air Canada.
On board amenities today, I think Mr. Hadfield has reported on "the absence" of such.
Honestly, if it ever resumes service over its full route and with its "much touted amenities", I doubt if any high end tour operator will touch it again; especially considering the disclaimer presently at the VIA site:
While VIA endeavours to operate on time, the realities of increased freight traffic on tracks that we do not own may give rise to significant delays. We suggest that you plan accordingly, such as not arranging connecting transportation on the day of your arrival.
The 20 car Summer consists will be "in the past"; "it's done for".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerome Nicholson:
"As far as the Canadian is concerned, terminating the train in Winnipeg might not be a bad thing. Winnipeg has air connections to much of the outside world, passengers won't spend days looking at muskeg crossing the Shield, and Winnipeg has enough one day attractions for the travelers arriving by air. If the train is late crossing the prairie, better to turn around in Winnipeg than to trundle on through no man's land. BTW, just where does the Canadian lose much of its time? If it loses it on the CN track between Toronto and Winnipeg,what a strong case for going back to the CP line!"
******************************************** I tend to agree, Mr. Nicholson.
I think it would make sense if the "Canadian" went back to the CP line, especially if the Canadian can't improve on its terrible on-time performance from Toronto to Winnipeg to Vancouver. I would miss, however, the northern route to Jasper although many would say the CP route to Lake Louise and Calgary is the more scenic.
As the Canadian seems to really be a tourist train, perhaps the Canadian should be restricted to just BC and Alberta.
If VIA could acquire use of the CP track from Edmonton to Calgary, I can envision the Canadian route as a loop. Clockwise, Vancouver-Kamloops-Jasper-Edmonton-Calgary-Banff-Lake Louise-Kamloops-Vancouver. On alternate days, counterclockwise for Vancouver-Kamloops-Lake Louise-Banff-Calgary-Edmonton-Jasper-Kamloops-Vancouver. It would allow a stop in both Alberta cities and the 3 main tourist destinations.
If the westbound Canadian terminated in Winnipeg, I believe a flight from Winnipeg to Calgary is about 2 hours. Unfortunately, it would mean that Saskatchewan would no longer have a passenger train, unless there are regional trains I'm not aware of in that province. I always wanted to visit Saskatchewan. Quite a varied terrain for a prairie province and a province with 100,000 lakes. If I ever get there, I would try to find a restaurant that serves Saskatoon berry pie (or Saskatchewan berry pie).
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Richard, I believe that the CP and Rocky Mountain entered into an exclusive/preclusive agreement stating only RMT, and their own Royal Canadian "luxotrain", could operate over the affected lines.
"Something tells me" that RMT would not be "thrilled" about competition from a government funded outfit - if it's even around post-COVID.
On that "related of sorts" point, check out this new topic.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I didn't know the Royal Canadian Pacific was still running. I thought of taking it until I saw the price tag. $8000 is a little beyond my budget.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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