quote:Originally posted by PullmanCo: Excluding Hawaii and Alaska, you cannot get on Amtrak in:
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Jefferson City, Missouri
Carson City, Nevada
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Who else will add to the list?
You also cannot reach Madison WI, by rail, nor can you reach Tallahassee, FL, nor Baton Rouge,LA, nor Columbus, OH, nor Frankfort, KY or Nashville, TN. Bismarck, ND, Helena, MT, and Boise, ID, and Pierre, SD, cannot now be reached by rail.
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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Remember though that Santa Fe, New Mexico is now open to rail service via the regularly scheduled RailRunner which I'd say qualifies as "heavy rail". However the also regularly scheduled Santa Fe Southern, being a tourist line, doesn't fit in my opinion.
Isn't Phoenix, Arizona out as well? I know Amtrak is connected by bus. But that's not by rail. I think they have a light rail service as well, but again that doesn't count.
-------------------- Matt Visit gallery for photos of our train layouts Posts: 579 | From: San Bernardino Subdivison | Registered: Dec 2001
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My list of State Capitols served by a passenger train.
California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carloina, Virgina, West Virginia, Missouri, Michigan ie East Lansing, Illinois, Indiana, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusett, Mississippi, Kansas, and Vermont all have Amtral Service.
Idaho, Wyoming, Tennesse, North Dakota and Florida, Arizona, Alabama and Ohio all once had Amtrak Service
New Mexico via New Mexico Railrunner
Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Deleware, Iowa, Maryland, Louisana, Maine, Nevada, New Hampishere, Alaska and Hawaii has never had Amtrak Service.
Chris
Posts: 711 | From: Santa Ana | Registered: May 2003
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You cannot get to any of them, unless you walk a good distance or take a cab. I do not know of any train stop at a State capital building.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Well, Springfield Il is a 5-6 block walk. I just did it last month.
Posts: 326 | From: San Antonio Texas USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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Remember that Nashville, TN now has the Music City Star commuter trains Monday-Friday.
That would count as 'heavy rail' BUT it connects to no other heavy rail.
So.....I'll accept Chris G's list, add Nashville, and say 30.....that's assuming that we're also accepting Montpelier Junction in Vermont.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Topeka ATSF Depot aka Topeka Amtrak to Kansas Capitol is 12 blocks.
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Jeff City Missouri Pacific Depot aka Jeff City Amtrak is 400 feet to the East Corner of the Missouri Capitol.
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mr. Presley has submitted the answer, 30, I am looking for; Here is my compilation; X - Denotes rail passenger service available
AL Montgomery AK Juneau AZ Phoenix AR Little Rock X CA Sacramento X CO Denver X CT Hartford X DE Dover FL Tallahassee GA Atlanta X HI Honolulu ID Boise IL Springfield X IN Indianapolis X IA Des Moines KA Topeka X KY Frankfort LA Baton Rouge ME Augusta MD Annapolis MA Boston X MI Lansing X MN St Paul X (corrected) MS Jackson X MO Jefferson City X MT Helena NE Lincoln X NV Carson City NH Concord NJ Trenton X NM Santa Fe X NY Albany X NC Raleigh X ND Bismarck OH Columbus OK Oklahoma City X OR Salem X PA Harrisburg X RI Providence X SC Columbia X SD Pierre TN Nashville X TX Austin X UT Salt Lake City X VT Montpellier X VA Richmond X WA Olympia X WV Charleston X WI Madison WY Cheyenne
I will review reasonable challenges (sorry, Mr. Mike Smith, yours is not one of such). Failing such, I'll arrange with Mr. Presley to forward him his prize.
Posts: 10868 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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We should have a contest to "guess" the next state capital to get regularly scheduled Amtrak service. My top two choices would be Tallahassee and Des Moines.
Posts: 1591 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Wow..... I feel like I just won the Kentucky Derby! Thank you, thank you.
In the interest of fairness - Chris Guenzler did the heavy lifting here. All I did was read his submission, note that he had not accounted for Nashville's Commuter Rail, and chipped in with that one tidbit.
So.....props to Chris Guenzler. He would have gotten the Music City Star were he able to connect to it from another passenger train!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: We should have a contest to "guess" the next state capital to get regularly scheduled Amtrak service. My top two choices would be Tallahassee and Des Moines.
With Wisconsin entering the Talgo Sweepstakes, I would not be surprised to see Madison, WI with rail passenger service within 5-10 years. I'd actually see the odds are higher for Madison than for Asheville, NC.
Perhaps the next quiz would be to name the State Capitols with heavy rail passenger service during 'reasonable' daytime hours. That eliminates Topeka and Columbia, SC; Little Rock and Lincoln too......any others coming off the list? Remember, Salt Lake City now has commuter rail although Amtrak only comes out at night there.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Even if it now appears that no reasonable challenge is forthcoming, I will hold things open through today. I have PM'd Mr. Presley advising him of his prize.
Oh well, I guess Ms. Sojourner was out sojourning, but I would presume the compilation will be of value, at least as a checklist, for her.
Posts: 10868 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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At this time, with no challenges having been made, I declare the contest is closed and David Presley is the winner.
The prizes I am awarding are Xeroxed (whoops Konica/Minolta) copies of two editorials that DPM wrote during 1st Quarter 1968.
In one such titled "Excuse the First Person", DPM acknowledged he was breaking all the rules of journalism, starting with editorializing using the pronoun I, but he was watching what he loved and championed through the 25 years he had been "at the throttle" die a visible death. This not only included rail travel on trains that were the flagship, the public image, of long standing transportation companies, it also included point to point ocean transportation as it was during this era that the RMS "Queen Mary" was withdrawn.
The other editorial is titled "Santa Fe Calls it Quits" and was DPM's reaction to the Santa Fe, a road that was determined not to downgrade their product even when others such as UP, GN, and NP had clearly downgraded theirs, to cutting their service to a nucleus "one a day" model.
Even if I have not laid eyes on either piece in over forty years, they are vividly etched in my memory.
The pieces are not DPM the pragmatist, as was the case with "Who Shot the Passenger Train" who was formulating both the role of the future intercity train but also how that product would be delivered to the public (a separate passenger train company), this was the romantic DPM, who wished to share with his readers that something he valued, as likely they did as well, was 'all over".
They'll be in the mail by sundown, Mr. Presley.
Posts: 10868 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I became a David P. Morgan fan when a subscription to Trains Magazine, a gift for my 10th birthday, began arriving at my house in December 1972,
I liked that DPM had an affinity for passenger trains, Southern Railway's 4501 steam locomotive, and Louisville Union Station.
This will be fun reading.....perhaps this weekend!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sorry I wasn't on line for a bit. Your list sounds about right, Mr Norman, though I don't always know all the light vs heavy metal details. For me, the goal is to get to these capitols with a train whenever possible, without a plane, and without me driving. I also try to avoid Greyhound when I can but cannot always.
I have actually been to 28, 29 if you count Juneau (I was there on a cruise before I was visiting capitols, so I went to the glacier instead!), but not all with trains. I mean, there usually were trains involved, but then I sometimes have taken a bus or gone with a friend by car to the actual capitol.
Posts: 2655 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Ms. Sojourner, light rail refers to rapud transit and streetcar lines completel;y separate from standard railroad operations.. Heavy rail means what are thought of as railroads - namely the Class I and II industry as well as any passenger train agency operating trains that could interface with such.
It was necessary that I made that distinction for the quiz in that Phoenix has a "Light Rail" streetcar system, and otherwise the contention could have been made that it be included in the listing.
Posts: 10868 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Mr. NOrman: In the transit related field, "Heavy Rail" means such things as Washington Metro, Atlanta MARTA, etc. The railroads themselves are in another world, literally. Based on the FRA, a transit system of the above type or the light rail type is not subject to their regulation, so long as it is not connected physically or temporally to the railroad system. That is, something like the Baltimore light rail, which does host freight service is still classified as exempt from FRA regulation because freights and transit cars are not allowed on the system at the same time.
Posts: 2968 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Harris, while it was of no concern with the quiz, I should have used the phrase "over rail lines accepted to handle Class I freight traffic".
Posts: 10868 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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No problem. the terminology varies from place to place and can be confusing. What I said seems to be the current revealed wisdom in the rail and transit industry in the US.
Other places are different. For example, Hong Kong subway is called the Mass Transit Railway.
Posts: 2968 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I am a mileage tracker and have pretty much reached the point that systems such as the DC Metro or Atlanta Marta do not count whereas mileage ridden on light rail vehicles DOES.
I make this distinction because light rail in many ways is a reincarnation of interurban transit systems AND because often the light rails are constructed over former heavy rail right of ways.
Bottom line - DC Metro does not count; Baltimore light rail does.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'd like to add a couple of things to Mr. Norman's quiz. First, state capitals ("capital" is the town/city, "capitol" is the building) that had Amtrak service at one time, but do no longer:
Bismarck, ND Boise, ID Cheyenne, WY Columbus, OH Helena, MT Montgomerly, AL Nashville, TN Phoenix, AZ Tallahassee, FL
Second, state capitals without any rail service at all (freight or passenger):
Annapolis, MD Carson City, NV Honolulu, HI
Did I forget anybody?
Posts: 614 | From: Merchantville, NJ. USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by rresor: I'd like to add a couple of things to Mr. Norman's quiz. First, state capitals ("capital" is the town/city, "capitol" is the building) that had Amtrak service at one time, but do no longer:
Bismarck, ND Boise, ID Cheyenne, WY Columbus, OH Helena, MT Montgomerly, AL Nashville, TN Phoenix, AZ Tallahassee, FL
Second, state capitals without any rail service at all (freight or passenger):
Annapolis, MD Carson City, NV Honolulu, HI
Did I forget anybody?
In Montana, Amtrak operated via Butte and never served Helena.
How about we compile a list of state capitals that had rail passenger service on April 30, 1971 but did not after May 1, 1971 when Amtrak began operation. For interest sake, tell us who operated that last train. For this list I have -
Frankfort, KY (last served by the Ashland, KY - Louisville, KY section of C&O's 'George Washington'.)
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Frankfort KY at present does not even have Greyhound either. To get there I will have to go by bus to Lexington (From Cincinnati, I suppose) and then take a TAXI--or go by car (but then I'd have to find someone who is interested in visiting)
Annapolis may not have a train but it's easy to get to by Amtrak if you go to BWI and take the airport shuttle service. I really enjoyed my visit. And Carson City is close to Reno.
Posts: 2655 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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About six months ago I read, on a Bus Drivers email group I frequent, that some charter company had proposed operating a scheduled bus service bewtween Louisville and Ashland via Frankfort and Lexington.
This service depended on gaining a subsidy from the state of Kentucky which, apparantly, did not materialize.
Maybe not having scheduled bus service to Frankfort is how Kentucky 'keeps the riff-raff' out.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Frankfort KY at present does not even have Greyhound either. To get there I will have to go by bus to Lexington (From Cincinnati, I suppose) and then take a TAXI--or go by car (but then I'd have to find someone who is interested in visiting)
Ms. Sojourner, If "none of my business" I'll certainly respect, but in the past, you have noted that you are a licensed driver and own an auto.
I'm not certain what your aversion to rental autos happens to be, but if you are to complete your 50 state sojourn to each capital city using surface transportation, it now appears the only reasonable and practical way you will do so, in the case of several, is to rent autos.
Just wonderin' but if NOMB I certainly respect that.
Posts: 10868 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Greyhound's website no longer lists service to Ashland, KY either where they, in the recent past, shared the former C&O freight station with Amtrak.
If you query a route from Huntington, WV to Columbus, OH they still show a scheduled stop in Ashland BUT the website will not sell you a ticket to or from Ashland.
Bizarre.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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A minor point, but Mr. Norman's list incorrectly lists Minneapolis as the capitol of Minnesota. St. Paul is the capitol, and the Amtrak depot is within the city limits of St. Paul. In the future, Amtrak will move back into the magnificent Union Depot in downtown St. Paul, and the capitol will be both within walking distance and a short hop on light rail.
Posts: 1577 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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From what I have read, it looks like the chances of restoring Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha are very poor. However, should the route make a comeback, Helena would probably be a stop as the route could not go through Butte. The track through "Homesteak Pass", east of Butte, has been out of service for a long time and would be very costly to restore. Thus, Helena would be the alternative stop.
Does anyone know of the status of the closing of the Amtrak Station in Sandpoint, Idaho? I thought it was already closed, but cannot confirm on the net. I know it is in need of repair. I hope it remains..a last remnant of the Northern Pacific RR.
Richard
Posts: 1933 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: From what I have read, it looks like the chances of restoring Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha are very poor. However, should the route make a comeback, Helena would probably be a stop as the route could not go through Butte. The track through "Homesteak Pass", east of Butte, has been out of service for a long time and would be very costly to restore. Thus, Helena would be the alternative stop.
Richard
You are correct. If the North Coast Hiawatha were to return, it would now have to operate via Helena rather than Butte.
In July 2002, working with the Madison Scouts Drum & Bugle Corps, I drove a bus over 'Homesteak Pass' and noted that the railroad was still in place......but with lot's of scrub brush growing in the right of way and numerous places where the tracks dangled in the air over little washouts. The integrety of that roadbed is pretty much shot and the whole thing would have to be rebuilt for it to handle trains again.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Is it "Homesteak Pass" or "Homestake Pass?" The former sounds like a back yard barbecue specialty..........
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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My error: the spelling should be "Homestake Pass".
Chris: I did not think of towns, east of Montana, that the NP might have shared with the Great Northern. I tried to find a map of the Great Northern route and could not find one with good graphics. Here is a map of the Northern Pacific route:
If the North Coast Hiawatha does make a comeback, it would also be nice if they had a branch to Gardiner, like the old days, for people travelling to Yellowstone. I don't know if there are even old tracks, in place, for that old branch.
One of my favorite old NP stations is the one in Wallace, Idaho. I believe it is now a museum:
posted
All stations in Minnesota west of St.Paul are ex-Northern Pacific. BNSF chose to use the ex-NP mainline instead of the ex-GN from St.Paul to Fargo. GN's mainline, and both the GN and original Amtrak Empire Builder used to run via Wilmar, and this is still an operating secondary route for BNSF. There was another GN line from the Twin Cities to Fargo that followed the current route of I-94 and was used by the Western Star to Seattle, but that route has been mostly torn up and turned into a trail. When Amtrak's Empire Builder ran via Wilmar, the North Coast Hiawatha ran on the current route of the Builder.
Would Livingston no longer be on the route of the North Coast Hiawatha? That is sad. I had a wonderful bicycle trip through Yellowstone coming off the NCH once. The ride up to the park from Livingston on an unused old paved highway with a strong tailwind was delightful.
Whoopee! My 1,000th post!
Posts: 1577 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: From what I have read, it looks like the chances of restoring Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha are very poor. Richard
Given that no Congresscritter is pushing Amtrak to study the route through an amendment to appropriating legislation, I think that's a safe statement.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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