posted
You will see the evidence of the Continental Divide as you head westward. Prior the Moffat Tunnel, all the streams and rivers you follow flow in the opposite direction of the train as it gains elevation. These flow into the rivers that empty into the Gulf of Mexico (Atlantic).
Immediately after emerging from the tunnel's west portal, the train follows rushing streams and the Colorado River for over 200 miles. These flow in the direction the train is going and empty into the Pacific.
The 6 mile long Moffat Tunnel is the highest point on Amtrak at 9,239 feet. This is probably higher than the Canadian ever gets (I think only around 4,000 feet). In order to finance the building of this tunnel, it was built in conjunction with a parallel tunnel to bring water from the western side of the Continental Divide (where there is more precipitation) to supply Denver on the eastern side.
Along the Colorado River you will see many rafters who salute the passing of the train in unusual ways.
Posts: 1575 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Ms. Karen, even if considerably more cramped than an Amtrak counterpart, I found that 1986 vintage Mk III Sleeper carriages rode quite well. After all, the UK's rail system (f/k/a British Railways) is all about passenger trains; freight is an ancillary sideline.
Posts: 10629 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Oh!!! Well, the tickets are booked and the kids are excited. The little ones will sleep well regardless. Harry is happiest on a train :-) I guess the girls can catch up on sleep at our layovers and chalk it up to a once in a lifetime experience :-)
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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I'm the sort of person that would be kept awake by annoying squeaks but apart from maybe using a spare T-shirt to wedge something closed/open, I've never used duct tape or clips.
The jointed track prevalent in many places can either be an annoyance or a lulling sensation. Staggered jointed track is worse (the joints in the rails aren't parallel but staggered halfway along the opposite rail) resulting in a swaying effect to match the clickety-clack.
At the risk of overloading you with unnecessary items, a radio scanner might be of interest. This is not a standard radio but most hand-held ones look a bit like walkie-talkies - though they are receive only. The engineer and conductor, and engineer and dispatcher (signaller) talk to each other on specific channels (frequencies) which can be interesting. The "talking defect detectors" every 10-50 miles often announce your train's speed as you go past, again, on a particular channel. You can hear the types of transmissions on this website: railroadradio.net though these are from static receivers, not moving trains.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I live in Denver, five minutes from the Amtrak station. I'd be pleased to meet you and your kids while you pass through town. I am guessing you'll have both hands full, still wanted to make the offer of a hello and brief meeting if time allows.
Otherwise - best wishes for a fabulous trip.
FYI - I have traveled in sleepers with my kids starting at age 2 (now 10 and 15) and have been fine w/o the clips and tape.
720 855 9232 720 218 4232 (cellular)
Ira
Posts: 300 | From: Denver, CO USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Ira, let us know if you meet up with Kacy and her family. Not sure if it's such a wise thing to post your phone nos. in plain text like that, though. I might have opted for PM's.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1543 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Hmmm -- maybe a poem will come out of this -- "The Trackside Meeting of Ira and Kacy"
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ira, It would be lovely to meet up. I plan to meet up with another member also, who I have spoken to via PM.
I will store your numbers, but I do agree it might not be wise to post personal numbers. I am not inclinded to post mine, even though I appreciate I have posted my itinerary.
Does anyone have a good way of determining the miles we will do on the trains?
Kacy x
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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While the mileages shown in the Amtrak timetables that are available in both print and web are good enough for most of us, they are not for the mileage collectors such as Mr. Guenzler, who want to measure every backup move and every detour.
Prior to your journey, why not order up the Amtrak System Timetable. Not sure if they will send it postpaid overseas, but there is one way to find out:
Regarding VIA, their print and web timetables do not report mileage, however, from Canadian National timetables in my collection, I can report that the Vancouver-Toronto mileage is 2782.5 miles. VIA further does not include timetables at their "order publications" page, but then I should defer to others with more knowledge of that outfit than I have.
Posts: 10629 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Prior to your journey, why not order up a System Timetable. Not sure if they will send it postpaid overseas, but there is one way to find out:
They certainly used to but that was several years ago I last ordered one.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Karen, I ordered an Amtrak System Timetable on- line, and they mistakenly sent me two of them along with other vacation/promotional brochures. If you can't obtain one any other way, PM me your mailing address and I'll get one to you by snail-mail.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1543 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Considering that at the Amtrak web page I linked, they seem to have foreign country listed, it is likely that will ship the publications postpaid anywhere.
However, suggest adequate lead time, for what if your parcel ends up being sent "surface". While "surface" mail is often airlifted, it can end up on a ship, in which case the term snail mail would be quite applicable.
Remember the days when people traveling would send "postcards" to friends back home usually with some trite message saying "having a great time" (truth being optional), and the sender would return from the journey long before the postcard arrived. Happened to me on enough occasions back in my traveling days.
Posts: 10629 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I always beat my postcards home. But this is largely due to the fact I send them on the way to the airport home (last holiday, I actually left them with our host to post for us after our departure) so I cannot blame the postal service :-) Sometimes, I have actually posted them from the UK.
I like postcards tho... They are bit like a photographic time capsule. I guess they are losing popularity in an age of digital photos and facebook etc., but there is something so lovely about a postcard. Maybe it's because I have several relatives who have still managed to bypass the internet that I like sending them so much.
If OK, Ocala Mike, I will DM you my details and get you to post the schedules.
I would like to thankyou all for the help, advice, support and friendship that has been offered here. I started this 'journey' in a bid to help my son. Where we are now is a journey that will see all 4 children cross a continent coast to coast - actually experiencing the various cities enroute. A holiday we will never forget.
I guess I will bug you with random questions from now until July, so my apologies are duly given. But I cannot thank you enough for the help already provided.
Kacy. x
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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Kacy and Gil -- I just checked the VIA web site, and you are right, Gil -- they no longer show mileages. Not that long ago, they did show mileages in their timetables, but of course the distances were in kilometers, not miles.
Kacy -- if you use the AMTRAK timetables to determine your miles traveled, remember that the mileages in the AMTRAK timetable are only "approximate," and I have found out that they are really not very accurate in most cases.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: Kacy -- if you use the AMTRAK timetables to determine your miles traveled, remember that the mileages in the AMTRAK timetable are only "approximate," and I have found out that they are really not very accurate in most cases.
I once saw a timetable that had different mileages between a pair of stations for the same physical train - I think it was the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle in Texas!
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Geoff, I could be wrong on this, but some Amtrak trains follow different alignments "directionally" on certain routes. Think "one-way streets," so there could certainly be different mileages between two station pairs depending on the direction of travel.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1543 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: Geoff, I could be wrong on this, but some Amtrak trains follow different alignments "directionally" on certain routes. Think "one-way streets," so there could certainly be different mileages between two station pairs depending on the direction of travel.
Understood but in this case the train was one physical block between those stations, with no directional running west of San Antonio, and with the schedules oriented with LA at the bottom!
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I've seen AMTRAK timetables where the mileage is different for two different trains which follow the same route in the same direction (like the Coast Starlight, CZ, and Capitols going the same direction between Emeryville and Sacramento or something similar), in the same timetable.
I thought maybe in some cases, 2 different trains might take 2 slightly different route alignments through say, a yard or something, but those differences are always way less than one mile.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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You're quite welcome, Karen. Glad the "post" is still that efficient. You may have heard that our Postal Service is in dire financial straits, and announced today that there will no longer be regular mail deliveries on Saturdays beginning in August. Seems the internet is ruining their business model (if they ever had one).
Hard to believe that in my lifetime, I have witnessed the almost total demise of US passenger rail and may be witnessing the same for the US mail.
I believe your adventure is scheduled for July, so please keep us all up to date here on it.
Posts: 1543 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Ocala Mike - there is a little gift for your GS winging it's way to the USA tomorrow morning :-)
Also, I'd like to ask any Portlanders (or West Coast folk who know Portland!):
Where should I take my little girl for her 4th birthday. That is where we will be on the actual day and it's possibly the only place I don't have any firm plans.
Something girlie, preferably involving chocolate!, would be fab..
Any ideas? For this one day: NO TRAINS!!! :-)
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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Try the Portland Children's Museum. It's on the Red & Blue light rail lines and the Museum is next to Washington Park Zoo. There's a miniature train that runs through the zoo if you need to get a choo-choo fix.
Most of Portland's attractions are close to transit and TriMet sells adult day passes for $5. Kids under the age of 7 ride free with an adult.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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"my kids really would like to go gold prospecting."
I assume you mean panning for gold, not hacking at a mountainside with pickaxes. <g> Just some words of warning: I did gold-panning in Alaska and my experience was that this is an activity that sounds appealing but the reality is disappointing. Even when they "salt" your sample with gold dust so you will have something to find, you slosh away for half an hour to an hour and have only a few tiny specks of gold to show for it. As an adult, it was interesting for about a minute and then I was ready to move on to something else. Most young children would quickly grow frustrated with this activity. Of course, you know your kids and if they're really determined to do this maybe they will be OK with it.
"If you need anything more 'train' in the Denver area, there is also the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO...... roughly one third of the way from Denver to Georgetown and Silver Plume."
On April 26th the Denver transit agency will open a new light rail line (the West Rail Line) from Denver to Golden, so you will be able to take a train most of the way to the train museum. I believe the connecting bus (#17) to the museum from the current Golden transit center only runs Monday through Friday, but they may add more service once the light rail line opens. The home page for the Denver Regional Transit District is http://www.rtd-denver.com/. Of course if you stop there going to or from your steam ride you will have a car and won't have to worry about buses.
This light rail line opening is good timing for you, but I cannot begin to say how very aggravating it is for me I as have to go to Denver in March so I will not be able to ride on the new line.
Also in Golden is the Colorado School of Mines, which is internationally famous in the mining community. They have a Geology Museum (http://www.mines.edu/Geology_Museum) which might be an acceptable consolation prize if you decide not to take your kids gold-panning, though I don't think the museum is specifially oriented to children.
"You will see the evidence of the Continental Divide as you head westward. Prior the Moffat Tunnel, all the streams and rivers you follow flow in the opposite direction of the train as it gains elevation. These flow into the rivers that empty into the Gulf of Mexico (Atlantic).
"Immediately after emerging from the tunnel's west portal, the train follows rushing streams and the Colorado River for over 200 miles. These flow in the direction the train is going and empty into the Pacific."
You do indeed see the trackside streams flowing east on the east side of the tunnel and west on the west side. On the west side, though, the streams mostly become the Colorado River which once emptied into the Gulf of California/Sea of Cortez which is an arm of the Pacific Ocean. It no longer does this because all its water is pumped out for various water projects before it reaches the sea.
East of Reno you will come upon another trackside river flowing east which would seem to give the lie to the Continental Divide. However, the Truckee River, which begins as the outlet to Lake Tahoe and is fed by snowmelt from the Sierra Nevada Mountains, empties into neither the Altantic nor the Pacific Oceans. It empties into Pyramid Lake in the Nevada desert, where its water both evaporates and sinks into the ground. Pyramid Lake has no outlet. So the Truckee flows from a lake to another lake, never to see the sea.
Volunteers from the California State Railroad Museum board the train in Reno and do a good commentary over the P.A. system between Reno and Sacramento on the scenery and local history. Sometimes the commentary is audible in the sleepers and sometimes you have to go to the lounge car to hear it.
As for Portland, I grew up in Oregon but we went to San Francisco, not Portland, when we wanted an urban vacation so I don't know what there is to do for kids there. It is a much smaller urban area than either San Francisco or Seattle so there are fewer attractions. Here's a link to a site called "Portland, OR: 50 Things to Do With Kids Before They Grow Up" that might be helpful: http://alphamom.com/family-fun/activities/portland-oregon-50-things-to-do-with-kids-before-they-grow-up/.
Re the itinerary from Portland, OR to Vancouver, BC (there is a Vancouver, WA across the Columbia River from Portland, also on the Cascades route, which can be confusing): Your plan seems to be to go straight from Portland to Vancouver with no layover in Seattle. I do not recommend this. The only frequency from Portland to Vancouver that is all-train (no transfer to a bus in Seattle) leaves Portland at 14:50 and arrives in Vancouver at 22:50. That schedule makes it very difficult to enjoy the beautiful scenery north of Seattle where the tracks run right along Puget Sound, because the setting sun will be shining right into your eyes as you're trying to look west at the Sound. (You do not see this scenery from the bus as the highway is somewhat inland, out of sight of the Sound for the most part.) Also, you will be arriving into Vancouver and getting settled into your hotel very late. I suggest that you ride one of the Cascades trains from Portland to Seattle the day before, stay overnight in Seattle, and then take the 7:40 train from Seattle to Vancouver the next day. Then you have the sun on the east side of the train, you arrive into Vancouver at a convenient hour, and you are breaking up the "chair car" rides into shorter segments. An eight-hour ride with no sleeper room to retreat to may seem very long, to your daughter at least. If you do the Seattle layover I do not recommend trying to take the Coast Starlight train from Portland to Seattle. It's a long distance train so it can arrive into Portland very late which will mean a late arrival into Seattle. Stick with the Cascades trains for that leg; they're much more reliable. If you take the 8:30 train you will get to Seattle at noon which will give you time to do something in the afternoon. Again, Seattle is a bigger city than Portland and you will have no trouble finding a family-friendly activity for the afternoon.
I do realize my suggestion to lay over in Seattle may not be practical because you have to balance time, money, and your daughter's birthday in all this. If leaving Portland a day early to allow a layover in Seattle means you have to travel on her birthday, she may not go for that if you have promised no trains on her birthday.
A general suggestion for traveling with kids on long-distance trains: Amtrak makes periodic servicing stops where passengers can get off and stretch their legs. I would make use of all of these, at least in the daytime, to give your kids a chance to run around a little and work off some energy. OTOH, sometimes even if you try to go to the diner between servicing stops, there are unexpected delays and you are in the dining car eating a meal when you get to a servicing stop. I would prepare your kids for this possibility so it doesn't come as an unpleasant surprise that they aren't going to be able to get off the train. You might think up some car-type game to play to distract them when this happens, like watching the passengers walking by outside the window and counting how many people walk by with red shirts vs. blue shirts, etc. -- you know the sort of thing.
Another life-on-the-train suggestion: If you have a device that plays audio books definitely bring that loaded with books so you can look out the window and read at the same time, while your kids are watching a DVD or playing video games. I like bringing books set in the areas I will be visiting on the trip. (Young children tend to quickly tire of scenery, even beautiful scenery, unless there is something active to look at like wild animals. You will likely see some deer and elk but they will be few and far between; wild animals aren't crazy about trains and tend to avoid the tracks.) For the mountain scenery, the lounge car is definitely best because the western mountains are steep. Often you have a solid rock wall on one side of the train and steep dropoff on the other side with a beautiful view. The "good" side changes throughout the day as the train goes back and forth across canyons and from one canyon into another. In the lounge car you have a good view out both sides of the train plus above due to the wraparound glass. However, you are traveling at the busy time of year when the lounge car fills up and there are more passengers wanting seats than there are seats available. At that time of year you want to be seated in the lounge car before the train leaves Denver. Then at some point you have to have lunch and you lose your seat then. (You can't just save a seat all day -- use it or lose it, except for restroom breaks.)
Young children soon get restless and want to play games instead of looking at the scenery and it really isn't fair to take up a lounge car seat when it's crowded if you aren't looking at the scenery. I would settle in your bedroom instead of the lounge car. When the "good" side is on your side of the train, fine; when the "good" side is on the ohter side you can stand in the doorway to the room and look out the corridor windows. The scenery through the Rockies is beautiful; if your kids have games or movies they find especially absorbing I would save them for that day so you can enjoy the views!
Life-off-the-train suggestion: Your kids will be cooped up on the train a lot on this trip and though kid's museums can be fun they may tire of museums on the stopovers and just want some time to play. You can search the web for public parks in the cities you will be visiting to find some parks with a good variety of playground equipment that your kids would enjoy. Also, here in San Francisco you can take the N-Judah Muni Metro light rail train to the beach. Make sure the kids understand the water is very cold, though, even in July (Alaska current - brrr!) so it isn't good for swimming. Bring sweaters, too, because the air is also often cold at the beach. This isn't Southern California! You will see surfers out in their wetsuits, though, and people do wade in the surf.
Climate notes: Washington will be hot and humid in July. New York and Chicago may be hot and humid. Denver will probably be hot but not humid. San Francisco can be warm and pleasant or cool and foggy in July, or both at once depending on whether you are on the ocean or the bay side of the city. Be sure to bring sweaters (jumpers?) so you aren't cold. Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver will likely be warm and pleasant but could be hot, especially in Portland. Bring hats and sunscreen!
This has been an long post and perhpas more advice than you really wanted, but hey -- you did say you were looking for advice!
It sounds like you have a wonderful trip planned. I think you and the kids will have a great time!
posted
About the Portland to Vancouver part of your itinerary....
Be sure you are booked to Vancouver BC Canada (VAC), not Vancouver WA (VAN). The train will stop at both stations but you won't find VAN as interesting as VAC.
As a longtime Seattle resident I encourage you to stop and spend some time in our city if it fits your itinerary. But if it's inconvenient, come see us next time you're passing through. Portland and Vancouver (BC) are also great places to visit. If you take train 516 you'll get a 30 minute stopover in Seattle--take a walk through the station and up the hopefully-just-reopened-staircase to Jackson St. and start making plans for your next journey.
In July the sun sets after 900pm so you will still be able to view the spectacular scenery along Puget Sound without trouble. The sun will set about the time you leave Bellingham and you should get to see a great sunset (weather permitting) on your ride across the border into Canada.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Thanks for all the advice. It is much appreciated!
I have a few 'operational' questions... How likely am I to get pre packed / sealed kids food through customs? Harry is a notoriously fussy eater (think it's sensory / autism related) and to make sure he eats fruit, I want to bring pureed fruit (bought, long life and sealed) - enough for our trip)... am I likely to get those through your customs?
Also, one thing that is missing from our trip is a visit to a national park... but I have 4 free days in NYC before we return home. Which would be the best place to visit (preferably by train, but not compulsory) - I think maybe Jamaica Bay??
I'm afraid the itinerary is sorted and we are merely passing through Seattle
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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It is a pity, Vincent. The more I research this trip, the more places I want to stop off at!!
I have to admit that my eyes have been opened! One thing many Europeans 'laugh' at about Americans, is that so many Americans don't hold passports, but - having really got into it - I can see why.... The place is just so flipping vast!!I couldn't travel more than 200 miles in any direction without passing into another country (OK,I don't need a passport for Scotland - but they'd like me to!! haha!) . But France, Ireland and Holland would all require documentation (i.e. passport) The other thing is that Americans - when they come to England - always say that things are so small.. but you know, they ARE!!! Americans must be so taken with the tinyness of the UK as much as Brits are taken with the sheer scale of the USA - but, being British and all... we never actually admit being in awe ;-)
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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quote:Originally posted by KacyB: How likely am I to get pre packed / sealed kids food through customs?
Actually the problem will be at the UK end - I'm pretty sure those fruit pouches are bigger than the size allowed through security. However, you probably could buy them airside (both Heathrow and Gatwick have airports attached to their shopping malls). From a quick read, such fruit pouches don't need to be declared as they're processed food, as opposed to raw fruit bearing nasty insects, for example. But it wouldn't hurt to declare them as it's better than a fine if it was discovered and not declared.
As for buying them in the US, anywhere that sells baby food including drugstores like CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreens etc.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Oh, and your extra days in NY? It's not a national park but take the subway to Coney Island. Head to the front of the train so the kids can see out the front (assuming those trains do have forward views for the passengers - some do, some don't).
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Kacy -- I don't remember your detailed itinerary, but the closest National Park to New York is probably the Adirondacks, but that would require at least one or two extra days to take the Adirondack (train) from NYP to Saratoga Springs or Whitehall or somewhere (there are many choices), then you would need to either rent a car or find some kind of public transportation into the Park itself, however I would defer any additional discussion of upstate new York to Ms. Sojourner.
Closer to New York, even though it is not a national park, are the Hudson River Palisades, which are on the NJ side of the Hudson across from Manhattan. You should be able to find public transportation from mid-town Manhattan over to the Palisades. Are you, like many of us here, old enough to remember the song "Palisades Park" by Freddy Cannon? (I'm sure Mr. GBN could come up with a You Tube video of the song in an eyeblink!)
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hi Kacy, welcome to America. You'll have fun with your kids here. While New York certainly has plenty to keep you occupied for 4 days, how about a short 90 minute train trip to Philadelphia. You'll get to see Amtrak's magnificent 30th St. station. Then take the kids to Independence Hall National Park. I'm sure as a U.K. resident you'll find it interesting to see how we view the war for independence. We took our boys when they were young and they certainly enjoyed it. Philly also has lots of other interesting museums and you'll get a ride on the higher speed (but not up to British standards) northeast corridor. If you want to pay a little more, check out the HSR Acela train.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:If there's one city in the States that wouldn't be surprised you travelled by train, it's Portland. Defiantly alternative, eco-loving, anti-commercial, this is the place that sports a famous piece of graffiti demanding "KEEP PORTLAND WEIRD". Its citizens pioneered the food-cart scene, invented egg-and-bacon ice cream, spurn cars for bicycles and treat the coffee bean with cultish devotion. Yes, it's ripe for satire – as evidenced by TV show Portlandia, which spoofs their earnest efforts – but there are people who like that sort of thing, and one of them is me.
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Er... not that I know of! I would hazard a guess that Brits might have heard of Portland, Maine for a well known horror author, but not Portland, Oregon. Let alone place either Portland, OR or Oregon itself on a map.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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