posted
Now that the train has had time to bed down a little, what's happening with the equipment deadheading to/from Beech Grove? I was told while at Beech Grove a couple of years ago that they try to use the Hoosier State rather than the Cardinal as the latter involves shunting betwen the yard and Indianapolis station to deal with the Cardinal, wheras the Hoosier they could do all the preparation within the yard.
But with IP running the Hoosier, do they still use that?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Effective Oct 2, the free Dome ride is over, as on that day, Business Class will be offered. For ready information, on October 9 #850 CHI-LAF in Value Coach is presently $29 and Business Class is $58.
There remains no notice whatsoever at the website that the service has been contracted out.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Trains.com reported today that a third coach has been added to the Hoosier State. While there have been reports of full trains, according to Trains, this was intended to add capacity that will force a lower price bucket. At present, Amtrak's price is less because the Cardinal has more coaches/capacity which results in a lower price bucket.
I guess they are trying to determine if price is a factor in ridership Amtrak vs. IP. This would level the playing field (and give more room for IP passengers at a lower price). I would think Amtrak could just adjust the price buckets on the Cardinal to have the same effect.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: I would think Amtrak could just adjust the price buckets on the Cardinal to have the same effect.
Would that not be collusion/price fixing? I don't know whether it would be with a complicated relationship/sharing between the companies, as opposed to (say) AA and DL offering the exact same fares between the same city pair.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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It is complicated, Geoff since all pricing is done via Amtrak's system with their data and software. And, is it price fixing if the price is lowered?
It would be nice if there was a clean break and the Hoosier State ran 7 days a week. Amtrak could then adjust the Cardinal so that it offered the best schedule to serve other points rather than being committed to the present times at Indianapolis.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: And, is it price fixing if the price is lowered?
Taking that question on its own, out of context, it's a bit of a grey area and probably depends. For example, a trick some stores use is to put something on sale when in fact the sale price is more like the regular price, but the original regular price was artificially raised for a period of time. Customer sees big SALE! stickers and buys it, thinking it's a bargain.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Unconfirmed, but there are reports at other sites that Iowa Pacific is in serious financial trouble and may petition for bankruptcy protection.
Apparently the difficulty that their Polar Express employees had to get paid could have been the "tip of the iceberg".
Regardless of the possible bankruptcy, Amtrak "is ready to go" March 1 and plans to assign Horizon Coaches and possibly the Dome Car 10031, subject to other commitments for the car. However, it is a safe assumption that the full service dining is a "goner".
Notice Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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That is indeed sad news. But i guess the hand writing has been on the wall for a while.
My first inkling that all might not be what we were led to believe was a trip to Alamosa last year. We arranged a tour of his shops. This was billed as his system overhaul and restoration for his growing fleet of well used but classic passenger cars. I was not impressed. Two guys were working amid a long string of cars needing work. The 'big' shop was a prefab building with a dirt floor.
But give Ellis credit - he tried to bring back passenger train travel as it once was and has many great tourist operations. Our trip on his Rio Grande Scenic was outstanding. And, while we did not ride it, his Pullman service to New Orleans appeared to be as good as the Panama Ltd.
But all this is hard to do in the 21st century, without very deep pockets. He has the right ideas and dreams but needs a good COO/CFO to keep him grounded. I do feel better with Moorman at the helm that the new Amtrak version of the Hoosier will be better run and marketed than the Boardman version.
Strictly a rumor at this point, but other railfan discussion have talked about Amtrak using three Amtrak western routes this summer as the test for the long discussed experiment to outsource the service to a private entity. I can't imaging why, but one of those interested was purported to be Marriott. If so, I assume it would be strictly for on board operations and Amtrak would continue to provide equipment and T&E crews.
Also in the news is that Hunter Harrison of IC/CP/CN notoriety is in the running to be hired by CSX as their President. It may be great for stock holders, but CSX and, I suspect, Amtrak trains on CSX, would be in for big changes - maybe not all good.
These are interesting times.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Strictly a rumor at this point, but other railfan discussion have talked about Amtrak using three Amtrak western routes this summer as the test for the long discussed experiment to outsource the service to a private entity. I can't imaging why, but one of those interested was purported to be Marriott. If so, I assume it would be strictly for on board operations and Amtrak would continue to provide equipment and T&E crews.
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I think that would be steering the helm in the right direction. I think something other than Amtrak crews would be best. I would like to see an independent train, with sleepers, along either the Empire Builder or Zephyr route, to Montana or Colorado. Marriott or any of the hotel chains would be great.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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.Amtrak will take over the Hoosier State passenger-rail service from Iowa Pacific Holdings starting March 1, the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) announced yesterday.
Iowa Pacific has operated the state train under an agreement with INDOT and Amtrak since July 2015. The railroad company "notified INDOT that it would soon be unable to continue providing passenger train equipment and onboard services under the terms of the existing contract," INDOT spokesman Will Wingfield said in an email.
"INDOT and Iowa Pacific came to mutual agreement to transition the service between Feb. 28 and March 1," he said.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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From CasaTequila Boca Raton (adjacent to Holiday Inn; Boca Raton)
Three TV's in the bar -all tuned to soccer.
Mr A. Richard Hill (should not have used your HAM call sign at that photo site if you didn't want to be outed), I doubt that other than VP Pence wants to return some "bacon", and The Donald concurs, to home state. Indiana must pay for the 4x service, and a Daily Cardinal would relieve IN from that obligation.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Yep, I'm WA6ZFM. Had I lived during the golden era of passenger trains, I would have loved to have been a railroad telegraph operator. When I first got my license, I talked to a few fellow hams who had, in their youth, jobs as railroad telegraph operators. They mentioned that it wasn't easy to copy code using those old sound boxes.
Back around 1970, I once rode the Burlington-Northern passenger train from Montana to Seattle. I ventured into the club car for a cup of coffee. One of the attendants somehow determined that my last name was "Hill". He asked if I was related to James J. Hill. Just for fun I replied "yes". His eyes got as big as saucers! I was hoping they would give me a free meal in the dining car or, at least, a free cup of coffee for being James J's kin.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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Iowa Pacific chose to end its involvement in the Hoosier State service because the company is "reducing marginal business units to focus on its core business," Iowa Pacific President Ed Ellis said in an email last month
Gotta wonder what is their core business.
Let's see how long the Dome Car and table Dining service that Progressive Railroading notes will last.
Addendum: 850 (27) and 851 (28) were the final IPH runs.
posted
I think it's safe to say Ed Ellis has great ideas and understands how good passenger rail travel can be. But, a good business man he is not.
It seems that IP spins off its profitable freight railways (Arizona Eastern and Perminan basin operations) to finance some of their marginal tourist ventures. After he pays off bills, I suspect all that's left will be the San Luis and Rio Grande Railway (and its passenger operation known as Rio Grande Scenic) and the Grenada Railway. The latter I think is in his 'briar patch' - IC territory. I hope he concentrates on them to provide a well run (and railfan friendly) operation.
I hope his fleet of passenger cars wind up in friendly hands, and not a scrap dealer. I'd love to see his ex Olympian Hiawatha observation-lounge-sleeper, Coffee Creek, fully restored.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Iowa Pacific’s Hoosier State train has a lot working against it.
First, there’s the long trip time. Three and a half hours to travel between Lafayette and Chicago, a two-hour drive away.
Then there’s the limited schedule. Only one train per day, four days per week. (Its sister train, Amtrak’s Cardinal, handles the other three days.)
And there are the freight railroads on whose track the Hoosier State runs. Freight railroads prioritize their own trains, meaning the Hoosier State’s operational destiny is largely out of its own hands.
All of that aside, Iowa Pacific has a lot working against it internally, as well. And my experiences riding the train Monday night suggest its wounds are largely self-inflicted
While a joyride on both the Pullman Rail and the Hoosier State "X'd my mind", I could not discount how UNOHOO stuck good friends of mine with his Golden Arrow fiasco during the '70's. Lest we not forget my 2013 "one click away" experience with PRJ which was "too close a shave", and from which I would have been out some "heap big wampum". A Hoosier State joyride would have involved a bit less scratch, but now that major brand hotels all require 24hr notice to cancel, I would not have been able "to walk away clean" if Hoosier State passengers at CUS were ushered up to Canal Street for a "Bustetoot" to Lafayette.
I wouldn't expect the promised Amtrak amenities of the Dome or the "Table Service" dining to last for long. Hoosier State will be back to its two Coaches (no F&B) before you know it - and on the "QT".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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In almost every shot, there were 2 locos assigned to haul the Hoosier State if there were more than 3 passenger cars in the consist. But the Cardinal could pull its longer consist and deadhead the entire IP consist with a single loco. What's up with that?
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Although the following article originated with an "alternative newssource", site, it has also been reported at several others that meet the standard of "recognized":
The Hoosier State—the Amtrak rail line that provides service between Indianapolis and Chicago four days a week—may soon be history.
The new two-year state budget proposed by Gov. Eric Holcomb Thursday eliminates the $3 million annual appropriation for the rail line. Without it, the line likely will be discontinued.
Two years ago, Holcomb—then lieutenant governor—went to Lafayette, one of the Hoosier State’s station stops, to proclaim the line a success: “We all recognize the importance of the Hoosier State train to tourism and economic development.”
Thursday, though, he was practically giving the last rites.
“It hasn’t performed as originally billed,” Holcomb said..
While F&B as well as Business Class have survived, neither can obviate the five hour CHI-IND schedule that can be driven in 3.25hr. While the "last ditch one a day schedule" of "little town to big town in the morning and back to little town at night" first instituted by the railroads as multi-frequency routes got cut back, it can provide something resembling service in markets such as LAF-CHI for day trippers or connections, but useless for anyone else.
And even though long stretches of the 65 have restricted speeds (55 and 45 "when flashing") while it is three laned through Indiana, it's not enough to offset the five hour schedule for which there is no relief in sight.
Time to lay the puppy to rest.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I would agree, GBN. If Indiana wants the train they should fund it on a daily basis. Terminating at Lafayette makes sense. Perhaps renaming it the Boiler Maker in honor of Purdue U. there. I understand that name came from the days when it was the main shops for the Monon RR.
Indiana's loss could present an opportunity to make the Cardinal a more useful service. Amtrak tries to make the Cardinal do too much and as a result it does nothing well. The mileage from Huntington to Chicago is about 480. From Huntington to Washington it's about 440. With the reduced coal volumes I suspect CSX would agree to a daily Cardinal on that portion if the rest of the route was eliminated.
Then the Cardinal could be part of an early evening NEC regional train to Washington. After removal of a few coaches in Washington (as is done now on the Palmetto), it would leave Washington in the late evening. This would provide a morning arrival in WV towns and perhaps more importantly enable good timing for daylight bus connections to Columbus, Cincinnati, and Lexington/Louisville. All of them are less than three hours away by highway. If the new Viewliner sleepers ever appear, that could be added to make it a useful train for us railfans.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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To quote from the article posted by Mr. Norman:
"Holcomb seems to love transportation. He’s proposing $20 million in new state investments to boost nonstop overseas flights and millions more for hiking and biking trail development. At less than 0.02 percent of the state’s two-year spending, the $6 million for the rail line is, well, chump change"
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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