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After my trip home from Sacramento later today I will have 1,356,028.5 rail miles.
Posts: 711 | From: Santa Ana | Registered: May 2003
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Congratulations. How do you count so precisely though, and do you count back-up moves - eg into Denver, or simply reversing backwards into Chicago US?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I am in Sacramento today, about to leave tonight for PDX and my first ride on the Starlight (and I am 2,000 miles from home). Now I'm excited to be in the same town as Chris. And I'm also excited about my first ride in the PPC!
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Can't wait to hear about your trip TwinStar. How do you like Sacramento?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I haven't seen the depot yet but Sacramento is beautiful. We just hiked the American River for 2 hours. Sorry to miss Chris G. and thanks for trying but I am still in the 'burbs with relatives.
Oops, #11 just hit a produce truck near Salinas and my #14 has not reported in since SBA.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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I am closing in on 142,000 miles....... I'll be just one mile short of that mark following a ride this weekend on an excursion train sponsored by the Roanoke, VA National Railway Historical Society. I'll be in the dome for a Roanoke-Luray roundtrip.
I'll add that there is a small...... but not impossible.... chance that we will encounter Amtrak's eastbound Cardinal with Amtrak's last remaining dome car where the former Norfolk & Western line ducks underneath the former Chesapeake & Ohio line at Waynesboro, VA.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I wonder how many nautical miles Sbalax has expended aft.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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LOL! I wish I'd started keeping track when we started cruising. Most cruise lines publish the daily distance and the total for the cruise in the Daily News. I do know that our April Transatlantic will be our 25th cruise.
Norm wishes, too, that he'd kept a flight log when he started flying. In 42 years it would be a substantial number of miles.
How was your cruise? I'm assuming that was the reason for the trip west?
Frank in sunny and very WARM SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Oh, the cruise went very well. I enjoyed it immensely, especially since I was able to start a new novel the day we left Honolulu and get a prologue and six chapters into the computer by the time we arrived at San Diego. There's something about life aboard ship that's conducive to writing, as there is aboard trains. No wonder Alex Haley sailed tramp steamers around the world while he was writing "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" and "Roots."
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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As of December 31, 2012 our mileage is: Bob 15,408.4 and Elizabeth 15,495.99
Posts: 1 | From: Lynnwood, WA | Registered: Mar 2013
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I guess I will have to dig out my old mileage, add a couple of trips, and count the one we take in May.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Henry... writing a book on the cruise makes the cruise tax deductible, right? (That's how I read your statement) Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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A case can be made that it does, but I wouldn't want to go to the mat with the IRS on this. I mean, a CRUISE?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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The two-legged Britannica comes through again! Thanks, GBN. I had not known that about the foreign flag.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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I have traveled approximately 245,000 miles by rail so far. (1951-2008).
My rail trips began with a trip as a child traveling from LA to SF on the "Coast Daylight" and ended with a trip from San Jose to LA on the "Coast Starlight". In between, I racked up the miles by commuting from my home town to SF for my job, for a total of 18 years. I commuted to SF in the mid-1960s behind Trainmasters and other wonderful power, but I was not a railfan back then, so I paid no attention whatsoever to those marvelous locomotives. Darn!
I decided to "walk my talk" as a public transit advocate and use public transit a little while after I began to work in Oakland, so I returned to the now former SP rails, and commuted from the Midpeninsula to SF for 16 years, and even used BART for 9 of those years.
I lived overseas as a child in the early 1950s, but remember very little of the few trains we did ride over there. I do remember, however, being really relieved at the lack of cinders getting into the train while in Switzerland. I also remember Le Gare du Nord in Paris being full of steam locomotives. I really wish my parents had taken some photos of those!
I read with great interest the accounts of those of you who have taken cruises. I myself am not much for such things, greatly preferring "terra firma", but I did get to sail across the Atlantic in 1951 on the CP's Empress of France". It was quite an exciting trip, because we sailed the North Atlantic, a rough crossing in the best of times, but the rough seas did not scare me (it would have now!). I do remember sailing up the St. Lawrence River, but not much else. My parents were friends with a man who had sailed the North Atlantic in the Navy during WW2, and his reaction to learning that we had sailed the North Atlantic as part of a pleasure trip was, "You couldn't pay me to do that!"
I rode various tourist trains and got to ride behind the UP 844, the UP 3985, the SP 4449 and the SP 2472, to name the main-line steam locomotives I have ridden behind. I got to be a Car Host a number of times, too.
I treasure all those memories. Heck, my trip on the "Coast Daylight" might even have been behind the 4449!
[back to lurk mode! ]
Posts: 211 | From: California | Registered: Dec 2004
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Please don't lurk, Margaret. Your posts are splendid and we need them.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Awwwww....Henry....how sweet of you! I am really touched! wow.....It is lovely to be appreciated!
I don't post much because I don't ride trains much any more, since I retired. I certainly do have opinions about poor ol' Amtrak, which I might share on an appropriate thread. (It would be very easy for me to say a whole bunch of things right now about Amtrak and the economy now, but I will restrain myself until an appropriate thread presents itself. I really don't want to contribute to "thread drift" too much.)
Posts: 211 | From: California | Registered: Dec 2004
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Wow, 245,000 miles! I had no idea you had logged that much time on trains. I guess a big chunk of that would be from commuting on SP/Caltrain though? Have you done much of the Amtrak long-distance system? We've got two of the best trains right here in our backyard: The Zephyr and the Starlight.
I've got miles (Amtrak Guest Rewards) burning a hole in my pocket, and I've got enough for a roomette in two zones. I really need to jump on that and go somewhere!
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Smitty: After some further thought -- memories came flooding back! -- I now have a total of approximately 249,000 miles on trains of all sorts (steam, electric, diesel -- oh, and even horse-drawn! (Hello, Ardenwood! ) Yeah, I was surprised that my total rail miles was that high. Yes. most of that was commuting to and from work. I've been on a few of Amtrak's LD trains: the Coast Starlight, the California Zephyr, and the Southwest Chief. Haven't ridden the Empire Builder yet and doubt I will --a combination of money and other reasons, though I dearly love to travel.
All my Amtrak LD trips were in coach, except back in 1981, when I shared a room with an Amtrak conductor friend of mine when we rode a rare Coast Starlight detour up the Inside Passage on the old GN as far as Chemult. That was fun! I remember the train tip-toeing at no more than 5 mph through a flooded area where the water was up to the railhead -- all you could see was the tracks and a large sheet of water! This was in the fall, I believe, and up in far northern CA it had snowed -- looked lie Christmas outside the train. Because the detour was in dark territory, the speed limit was 59 mph, which was one of the things that made us 8 hours late into Chemult. The other thing that made us that late (which I didn't mind at all -- more train ride for the money ) was the need to recrew before we got to Chermult, as the crew had died on the law at a place called Robbers Creek. So was sat in this Christmas-like wonderland -- which I didn't mind at all -- and waited for the relief crew to arrive from K Falls. They had trouble finding us because the radio was out (I think), so they had to keep checking the track to see if there was snow on the railhead. They finally found us, and off we went. We got off i Chemult and caught the southbound Starliight, and returned home on the detour route. That was a trip to remember -- and I realized I forgot to include it in and a few other trips in my final tally.
Posts: 211 | From: California | Registered: Dec 2004
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LOL @ Ardenwood! I should do that one someday if it's still in operation. I've seen pictures of it (I think "shed47" did a photo essay on it once).
That Starlight detour trip that you did sounds great! This is the first time I've ever heard of 11 or 14 taking that particular route. I would imagine that these days, it would be a huge no-no. I think to this very day it's still dark territory and the track isn't exactly up to Class 1 standards. I could be wrong, but I believe that's how things are back in the woods on that route. Boy that would have been fun taking a detour like that! That's probably one of the last (if not THE last) times that a passenger train went through there.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Yes, that detour up and down the Inside Passage WAS a LOT of FUN! It is really too bad that Amtrak is now committed to busing pax long distances, rather than detouring the train. BTW, that was not the last passenger train on that route. Last year (2012 -- June 3-5), Central Coast Chapter of the NRHS did a "Northern California Explorer" excursion going up the Inside Passage with single-level Amtrak equipment which went as far as K Falls. It returned to Emeryville, CA, on the normal route.
There were also some detours on the Inside Passage in 2003, intermittently, when the UP was doing some track work on the usual Amtrak route.
If you want to be sure to find out about future Central Coast trips, please see for future excursion info. You can also check the Trains and Travel website for interesting rail trip info, including future Central Coast trips.
Ardenwood: AFAIK, from their website, it looks as though the horse-drawn trains still are running, (as are the other fascinating things there) but they are, as usual, closed for the winter until April 1, when their regular schedule will resume. Info here.
Posts: 211 | From: California | Registered: Dec 2004
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Margaret, I'll chime in with Henry about enjoying and needing your posts- you have a lot of real world railroad knowledge plus good sharp memories of some classic trains. That's a valuable 'commodity' here, I think we all like reading anything you post. SP is pretty much my favorite "fallen flag;" a road steeped in a culture and "way of doing things" all its own...
I received a few months of paychecks from SPTC in the late 70's while working on an NWP signal gang out of Petaluma. Didn't stay there very long, but at least got my feet wet a little, and had my first glimpse of the SP "culture."
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I assume the "inside passage" route is the old route between Tehama and Davis, CA, that the CS formerly used, via Orland?
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Railroad Bob: Ahhhhh...another SP fan! Awesome! And THANK you VERY much for the compliment! Gosh, this is nice! So you actually worked for the NWP -- awesome! I am pleased that passenger trains will run on the NWP again. That is great! (I am sure there will be NO trains RR east (north) of Willits -- ever. MUCH too expensive to maintain, and no freight in any significant amounts ever again. Logging the way it was done was simply not sustainable.)
RRRICH: Sorry I was not more specific about what is meant by "the Inside Passage". It refers to the former GN line that runs from Keddie, CA, in the Feather River Canyon, to Klamath Falls, OR, via Bieber, Nubieber, (love those 2 names!), Stronghold, etc. It runs geographically north and south, and is east of the line Amtrak usually uses, which goes through Dunsmuir. The line you referred to is the "West Valley Line" and bypasses Sacramento.
Posts: 211 | From: California | Registered: Dec 2004
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RRRich , the original Amtrak Coast Starlight route that was run from 1971 to 1982 is the former SP "West VALLEY line". THis is the one that runs from TEHAMA--Orland--Willows--Williams--Arbuckle --- Woodland---Davis. This line is now operated as a shortline by the California Northern Railroad.
I rode that SP west VALLEY line as a kid when my family rode the Coast Starlight to and from Portland OR and SJC (San Jose, California). I remember riding in a short dome car in the late 1970s as southbound Train 11 arrived in Davis, Ca. Train 11 stopped in Davis on the TEHAMA to DIXON leg of the wye which was the ordinary and regular route. Since 1982 NO passenger trains use this leg of the Davis wye. Of Course ALL passenger trains now use the 2 Main Track Mainline which runs from DIXON to Sacramento. Those days in the 1970s were fun, Happy and relaxing days to experience as a railfan or rail passenger.
The SP West SIDE line ran from TRACY, CA (SOUTH) thru Los Banos, CA and turned east and rejoined the busy SP East SIDE line at Fresno, CA. This West SIDE line is now operated also by the California Northern Railroad and is intact ONLY from Tracy to Los Banos.
Very sadly this line ends just north the major California highway 152 (roadway). Los Banos to Fresno portion has been REMOVED for many years now. THe entire SP West SIDE line WAS INTACT the ENTIRE route in the 1980s when my family and I drove from the SF Bay Area to Tehachapi--Barstow--Daggett--Cajon and Los Angeles. We did this trip a few times to Railfan the Tehachapi area and SoCal. I feel very BLESSED and GIFTED to be able to railfan in such Friendly times with such BEAUTIFUL looking trins (pre Graffiti days). I hope my info helps you and others to understand the different names of the SP mainlines in Northern and Central California ! --- Daniel
Posts: 283 | From: Palo Alto,CA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Daniel (or anyone with knowledge): I remember riding the Coast Starlight on brand new Superliner equipment from San Jost to Seattle to visit friends when I was in 8th grade (I went by myself---things were different back then). I vividly remember the train having a stop at Red Bluff, CA----when did Amtrak stop serving that station? Did they stop serving it because the train takes a different route and they no longer go through Red Bluff any more, or, do they still go through Red Bluff but just skip by the old station? Any idea what year it changed?
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Smitty, I do not believe that Amtrak ever had a RAIL stop in Red Bluff, California. You can take the rather time--consuming task of checking the OLD AMTRAK Schedules at http://www.timetables.org/ Old STREAMLINER Schedules can be found at for pre Amtrak era of 5-1-71 : http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/ EDIT: I just checked the Fall 1972 Amtrak Timetable and the Coast Starlight went DIRECT from REDDING to DAVIS as a NON-STOP run in that Timetable. Corning, California was obviously added a few years after Fall 1972.
I have a very very good memory and remember that the stops in the area during the late 1970s were : REDDING and CORNING. In 1982 with the permanent Reroute CHICO was the first passenger stop south of REDDING in northern California. THe Coast Starlight also served MARYSVILLE until it was dropped a few years ago. This rerouting was done to allow the Amtrak Coast Starlight to serve SACRAMENTO. The Starlight only served Davis enroute TO or From the SP West Valley line prior to the 1982 rerouting. I hope this posting helps to point you and others to those websites for further research !! ---- Daniel
Posts: 283 | From: Palo Alto,CA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Ah, thank you for this information. You are exactly right---my memory was wrong. For some reason I was writing Red Bluff but I was actually thinking Marysville. Okay, so Marysville is the stop that was severed because of a rerouting. So they did this in order to stop at SAC? Gosh, I don't remember that at all.
Thanks for those links. I'm going to start looking through them now (and bookmark them---those are very handy to keep on hand).
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Daniel -- thanks for the info on the "inside passage." I'd never heard it called that -- that was always part of the famous "Feather River Canyon route."
Concerning the CS -- I too do not remember it ever stopping in Red Bluff, but it still passes through Red Bluff, which is north of Tehama, where the east valley and west valley lines split. I remember the old west-valley route stopping in Orland, but I do not recall it ever stopping at Willows or Corning.
The currently-used "east-valley line" still passes through Marysville, but the CS does not stop there any more. I am currently working on my CS SEA-EMY route guide -- it'll be posted on my web site in the next couple weeks.
Here's a question for someone -- why doesn't the CS stop at Roseville? It passes right through the station, which admittedly is pretty close to the junction of the main CS/CZ line and the Central Valley east side line. Problems with it being so close to the interchange between the 2 lines perhaps?
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: Daniel -- thanks for the info on the "inside passage." I'd never heard it called that -- that was always part of the famous "Feather River Canyon route."
The industry term for this routing was "inside gateway" and represented a competitive N-S routing without which the Southern Pacific would have had a virtual monopoly on West Coast traffic. The routing comprising the "Inside Gateway" was SP&S-Bend-GN-Bieber-WP-Oakland-ATSF-LA.
When during the '60's the issue came to a head with the SP seeking to merge or otherwise control the WP, the concern amongst both the railroad and shipping communities was that the routing would be broken and "the octopus (SP)" would grow one more tentacle.
The issue of course was tempered when the UP got the WP and today with the BNSF-UP "duopoly", competitive rail service is afforded by means of trackage rights to one another ensuring that if there were competitive routings available prior to those mergers, there would continue to be afterwards.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Daniel: Just saying thank you for your two superb explanation posts of the arcane workings of those various historic SP routings in northern CA. Jogged my memory quite a bit; I remember crossing the old WP diamonds at Marysville on the CS. At that point the train was just under an hour out of SAC. (#11)
Margaret: I put a PM in your inbox; thank you!
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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RR Rich, the practical reason that Amtrak Coast Starlight does not have a Roseville station stop is the following. Most of the time the Coast Starlight uses the former WP Sacramento Subdivision . as the most DIRECT rail route from the cities MARYSVILLE to SACRAMENTO. This is SAC SUB" as it is usually called on the radio by the train crews and UP dispatcher who controls the greater Sacramento Terminal area. The former WP Sac Sub is the line that passes just east of the Arco Arena area in the northern reaches of the city of Sacramento.
The line that passes thru LINCOLN and ROSEVILLE is the former SP Valley Subdivision. This line is a longer route and more disruptive as runs directly thru the MAJOR - Roseville Freight Yard area. This operation reason is why ORIGINALLY the Amtrak Coast Starlight was routed on the SP West Valley Line in the pre-merger era 40 years ago. These days because of the mega-mergers both the WP and SP lines in the Sacramento area are part of the same operation under the same company UPRR. This makes it very easy for the Coast Starlight to use the former WP Sacramento Subdivision as the Shortest and Quickest routing while still serving Sacramento proper.
The likely reason for this 1982 permanent rerouting via SAC was because Southern Pacific freight traffic had decreased enough to permit just the 1 daily Coast Starlight to pass thru Roseville. I do not know for sure what ROUTE the Coast Starlight primarily used in the period from 1982 to 1996(UP + SP Merger). I would be VERY VERY INTERESTED - CURIOUS (Big Time !!)to know what happened during that historic time period.
I know it would be convenient for some folks who live in the eastern Sacramento suburbs to use a Roseville station stop for the Coast Starlight. This again is the major operational reason why Amtrak and the Union Pacific Railroad do not provide this stop (Rosevile) for this train. I hope this answers your questions !! --- Daniel
Posts: 283 | From: Palo Alto,CA | Registered: Jul 2000
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I'm a bit confused, Daniel -- the last time I rode the CS southbound (which has been since 1982 -- traveling N-bound, it is dark then so I can't tell what route is being used), the CS did NOT use the WP Sacramento Subdivsision between Marysville and SAC, even though it is a shorter route. The CS then still passed through Lincoln and Roseville (SP Valley Subdivision). In my experiences, the CS has used this route for the entire period from 1982 to the present (the Marysville-Olivehurst-Lincoln-Roseville-SAC route -- SP Valley sub). Every time I've ridden the CS since 1982, it has used this route. Has the route changed to the Sacramento Subdivision in the last 2 or 3 years?
Of course, use of the Sacramento Subdivision would also explain why the CS no longer stops at Marysville, since the SAC Sub. does not go past the AMTRAK station.
Please let me know what the CURRENT routing is, so I can revise my maps and RR guide for this route, if needed, which I am presently working on.
Thanks--Rich K
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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