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I guess they got that line fixed up, I noticed now they're gone and a close look I saw those new ties are under the rails. Just some of the railroad interesting things I spot driving around all day in a bus :-)
I replied to you, ATSF but I guess its not posted. Oh well...anyways, do you know when they took out the line that continued on from the Olive st. curve and veered to the left? I assume it went to the mainline?
quote:Originally posted by Buslady: There's a whole bunch of new ties by rancho del rio stables; I happen to look down from the 57 and saw those. I've never seen a train ever on that side of the line, but the other side sometimes a few cars parked.
[This message has been edited by coach34135 (edited 10-09-2002).]
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It's only been in the past couple of years that I've taken a special interest in the Santa Ana Branch, and the tracks to the ATSF main line have been out of service since then. However, it's been only recently (within the last year or so) that the rails were actually removed. You can still see the "scar" in the road. The building that was built where the rails once were is several years old at least.
SP did once use this interchange with ATSF, but the track curved to left rather than the right as it does now at the State College Junction. However, it was not done with the daily frequency as is done today, as SP did not have to rely on ATSF for trackage rights to get to the actual Santa Ana section of the branch. When the I-5 rennovation began, SP's through line to Costa Mesa closed (you know, the old truss bridge along I-5), so they had to use ATSF on a daily basis at a junction that curved right so they could head in the direction of Santa Ana. This is the one at State College just before the Marlboro complex. I really can't tell you how much that interchange was used (BNSF and UP almost never interchange cars here) but it was probably used back when there were more industries on Santa Ana St. SteveD might actually know more about it that me, since he actually researched the history of this line.
On a side note, there is still a crossbuck guarding the now trackless intersection of Santa Ana and Olive, and the words "look out for the cars" are still legible on the post. This might be worth getting a photo of before it's removed.
Also, I saw the Hauler pulling out of Anaheim yard this evening around 9:45. The power was 3 "undefiled" (i.e., no UP) SP units.
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The former SP trackage that ran in Santa Ana St. to the east of Olive St. did at one time connect with the AT&SF-SP Interchange and also served a citrus products company. The SP delivered tank cars of corn syrup to the facility (Anaheim Citrus Products ?) in the last years that it was used. Interechange between the Espee and Santa Fe seemed to cahnge to the connection near State College Ave when that trackage was installed in the late 50s or early 60s when the Whirlpool and General Foods warehouses were built and a joint service agreement was established between the railroads. Both those companies are gone and little if any interchange occurs in Orange County. Some other interesting features of the track are the following: When the line was first built through downtown Anaheim in 1899, the eastern extension on Santa Ana St. extended about 1200 feet east of the Santa Fe line which required a crossing. This short trackage to the city limit appearently did not last very long since references to it in timetables are very few. The SP used this trackage to reach a connection with the Union Pacific's Anaheim Branch. The SP had trackage rights to serve Fullerton from when the PE and UP consolidated trackage from the Whittier area to Fullerton. After the PE-SP merger in 1965, the SP served that area. The SP decided to serve the area from its Anaheim operation and a connection was made sometime in the very late 60s or early 70s. Surprisingly (or perhap not so due to competion)there was no interchange between the UP and Santa Fe/SP in Anaheim. The UP tracks just stopped in an area on the southside of Lincoln Ave (Center St)where the maintained a turntable for at time. The UP branch was completed in 1923. Posts: 50 | From: Orange Calif | Registered: Oct 2002
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One of the significant commodities interchanged between different railroads in O.C. over the years was sugar beets. For example, only AT&SF reached the Anaheim Sugar Company, so beets originating on U.P. or S.P. destined for that factory would have to had been transferred via the interchange tracks discussed above. Similar interchange occurred from SFe to S.P. for San Diego County beets headed for Santa Ana factories, at Santa Ana, and likewise, the reverse for outgoing finished sugar headed for Santa Fe destinations(some was spilled in a Santa Fe wreck on the Surf Line once that had been handed off in this fashion).
Posts: 216 | From: San Carlos, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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The last few editions of the outbound Costa Mesa Local has seen several flat cars with ties heading out of Anaheim. Four per train since Monday. Does anyone know if they are rehabing that line and if there is enough traffic to warrent it? Also, for the last two weeks, the Costa Mesa Local has been leaving Anaheim before 7:00 am, one to two hours earlier than usual.
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Apparently, traffic is sufficient for UP to upgrade the line. With two daily locals serving the branch and a daily manifest out to Anaheim that is often quite long, I'd say traffic is sufficient, although not what it once was. I saw the Marlboro on its return around 6:30 PM or so on Tuesday. A healthy 35+ cars long. Posts: 246 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Apr 2002
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I caught the local crusin thru SNA by Lincoln, most of the cars on it were loaded with brand new ties. Also today, I saw a rail worker checking the line along Lincoln and marking parts of the ties that may be needing attention. So I wonder if I will be seeing the MOWers or something fixing up that area.
quote:Originally posted by bsme25: The last few editions of the outbound Costa Mesa Local has seen several flat cars with ties heading out of Anaheim. Four per train since Monday. Does anyone know if they are rehabing that line and if there is enough traffic to warrent it? Also, for the last two weeks, the Costa Mesa Local has been leaving Anaheim before 7:00 am, one to two hours earlier than usual.
[This message has been edited by coach34135 (edited 10-12-2002).]
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Re above reports of new ties seen hauled out of Anaheim on Costa Mesa Local and my own observation of empty centerbeams on returning local passing SARTC-cam, has anyone toured the route through South Santa Ana to see where ties are actually being dropped or replaced? --curious expatriate(as in "Go Giants!")
Posts: 216 | From: San Carlos, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Wednesday night report by "Big John", whoever that is, for those who don't frequent TrainOrders:Caught the n/b whatever[presumably Marlboro Local based on time and size--SED] at 5:34 last night. Came out of work, looked down the street and there it was. At least one crud, about 12 bulkhead skeleton lumber flats, a few std flats and about 18 boxes. Caught up with it briefly on Olive and then again on Santa Ana. Unfortunately signals and other traffic were not cooperative so I was unable to pace or catch up to the front or to get a definitive car count. But it was going faster than I expected
Posts: 216 | From: San Carlos, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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thanks to SteveD for mentioning this board and thread to me...
Great to see such interest in Anaheim's UP local action. This is my link to the railroad world. I will add my observations to previous posts.
~ ~ ~
the repeatedly aforementioned HB local leaves the wye at about 12:30pm each day, returning around 4:30 or 5:00pm. they alternate between runs to HB and Paramount. There is one single customer in Paramount that recieves asphalt, generally in black tank cars. The HB local has lumber, tanks and a few box cars.
~ ~ ~
The Costa Mesa local takes lumber to Reliable Lumber, newsprint to the LA Times, chemicals to Behr, plastic pellets to the transfer station described by SteveD earlier on. There are a few small industries buried west in the industrial park west of Fairview Avenue near Susan St. Additionally, I have observed grey covered hoppers just north of St. Gertrudes, industry not noted. There maybe more, but these are the ones that I am aware of.
~ ~ ~
I did a drive by on the section of the branch used by the CM Local in Santa Ana and Costa Mesa. Yes Steve, tie replacement is in progress. I just email'd you, then found this thread and will add notes for the curious to read...
~ ~ ~
The M-O-W equipment is stored at the old Holly Sugar tracks that are adjacent to the SC Edison substation near Warner and Grand. (This is where those plastic pellet cars are stored, some sort of transfer station. 18 wheelers roll in and suck the pellets out.)
The big rig converted to rail use was on the other side (north side) of Warner. New ties installed from MacFadden to Flower crossings. Little or no replacement close to the exchange with the BNSF. Old ties strewn everywhere. The switch ties are still bundled. The M.O. for the other tie replacement was to do the standard ties first, then come back and get the switch ties. That looks like the plan here as well.
No bundled ties along Alton where the welded rail is... no ties (new or old) west of Fairview, towards the LA Times plant. Maybe they ran out of ties ?? Maybe that is as far as they are going to go ?? I saw one bundle of ties near the old Greenville silos where the bolted rail starts again, but nothing on the other side of Fairview, even though the rail bed looks pathetic. I recall the UP local guys discussing the poor quality of the road bed in this area once water is added... it all turns to soup. Once the rain starts, the derails are right behind.
I would really like to catch the ballast train on Santa Ana Street or Olive Street, I would appreciate a heads-up for sure !!
question ?? Will I be sent an email on replies to this thread, or do I need to check back for new posts... ??
dash-al (aka anaheim-al on TO)
[This message has been edited by dash-al (edited 10-17-2002).]
Posts: 77 | From: anaheim, california, USA | Registered: Oct 2002
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Great info on the Costa Mesa branch Anaheim Al. This past Monday I got an opportunity to chase the local down the line from Halladay St all the way to the LA Times Plant. Track looks great in some locations, terrible in others. Doesn't look like there are too many on line industries left. Lots of spurs have had their switches already removed. This evening I heard the Ana Hauler talking on the radio as it was departing Anaheim. They were giving their engine numbers and pickups along the line to their dispathcer, I think. I wasn't paying much attention until I heard them say that by the time they finished their pickups out of Los Nietos,they would be 8,500 feet long and that that was a long train. Does anyone know how many cars that translates to? I assume an ave freight car is 50-60 feet long? If so, that is one long train. I saw the power on the wye at Anaheim today. It consisted of 3 SDs all in SP colors with no UP patchwork.
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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This morning at around 645, light power used for the Costa Mesa and Marlboro returned to Anaheim from somewhere down the East End of the branch. Sometime during the early, early morning it must have snuck out. When I heard him coming, I expected to see him going east with a cut of cars but was surprised to see him going the other direction. I've never seen this operating practice.
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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That 8500 ft train probably had between 120 and 140 cars. Looks like they've hardly changed operating practices from the SP days - the Anaheim Hauler is still a monster. I remember as a kid waiting for it at the crossings. It always had three or four SD9's and a bay window caboose at the end.
Posts: 246 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Very nice pictures!! Usually I see cars parked near the track looking northwards from Edinger, i wonder if they fixed that up too. I'm gonna scout the area over there.
Today on a trip I noted torn out tracks on Knott, I was heading to Western High. On the left it was torn out but on the right there were tanks being stored. Then going back to the 22, I crossed tracks a little up from there and I saw waaaayyy down the line the EoTD blinking
quote:Originally posted by dash-al: I grabbed some photos of the m-o-w tie replacement project and posted them at the link below...
posted
I was at the Orange Empire Railway Museum today, and they have a new display of crossing signals from different eras, and included in the display was a warning bell that had been taken from one of the crossings on Santa Ana St. They also had several wig-wags that were very similar to the one on Lemon St.
Posts: 246 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Are you talking about the Signal Garden? That's probably my favorite thing there. It's been there at least 2 years, I remember messing with it when I attended my first Spring Pump-In with my firetruck club.
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On Sunday at about 4:05, we were opening gifts at an "Elmo" birthday party for my 2 year old God Daughter when the sound of airhorns filled the air. Alyssa dropped her presents and made a mad dash for the door. Kids and parents quickly followed and were rewarded by a parade of at least 10 UP MOW track vehicles, some with small 2 axle flats in tow. The vehicles were spaced about 20-30 seconds apart so it made for a faily long procession. The hired Elmo actor never showed up but at least Alyssa and the other kids were treated to a parade down Santa Ana Street. Alyssa got 4 Elmo dolls, a lot of clothes and some Thomas The Tank Engine toys from her Nino! Got to start them off right!
By the way, this morning I overheard talk between the operator at Anaheim Station and the Costa Mesa Local about the ability of a 30 car ballast train to make it down to the end the branch and run the power around the train. The local advised Anaheim that the siding at Dyer was long enough only for about 10,50 foot cars and that there was no room at the Metrolink Jct either. The operator stated that the ballast train would be operating down the branch in about a week and a half. That would make in mid week. I believe the Huntington Beach branch was reballasted over the period of 2 weekends. Keep your ears open.
Lastly, it sounds like the Costa Mesa Local is going on duty at 5 a.m. verses 7 a.m. on a regular basis now. This means the Marlboro now consistanly gets out on time and gets back to Anaheim around 5 p.m.
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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The question that nobody has asked is why the UP is suddenly spending some money on these Orange County branches? Even the remnants of the Tustin branch are getting some grooming? A sale in the works perhaps?
Posts: 37 | From: Orange, CA | Registered: Nov 2002
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The ballast train finally visited this branch today. It backed down Santa Ana St at 1205 p.m. with Y2552, UP 747 and 16 cars of ballast. It returned to Anaheim at 2:30 the same afternoon. As far as I know it did not make it down the segment from Santa Ana to Costa Mesa. I imagine they will do that later today or perhaps next Sunday. I think UP is rehabing these branches because of the poor shape they were in. Check out an earlier posting by Anaheim Al on this same topic. He has some great shots of this branch beyond Santa Ana.
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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I don't think UP has any plans to sell the branches. The Santa Ana and Huntington Beach branches alone still generate a good deal of traffic, enough to merit several daily locals and an often very long road train in each direction. UP is probably rehabing them because, as bsme25 noted, they were in very sorry shape. The rehab will help prevent derailments and ensure smooth movement of traffic on a branch line that still sees very frequent activity.
Posts: 246 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Apr 2002
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The ballast train went out again this morning at 8:30. It was right on the heels of the Costa Mesa Local. The gates and flashers at the west end of street running didn't even get a chance to reset. Same power same number of cars, 16. This time the train was going forward and the last car had a FRED. I understand the siding at the far end of the branch can only handle 15 or so cars so the train had to be short so the power could run around it. Hope the ballast train has to make a few more trips.
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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If anyone gets the OC Register, there was an article in the Local section today about the storms over the last few days that mentioned a weather related derailment of a UP train on the Santa Ana Branch in Buena Park (5 cars and a locomotive derailed). It blocked a crossing for several hours. Must've been either yesterday or the day before.
Posts: 246 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Apr 2002
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For Those interested in O.C. RRs at large, several auto club map aegments, vintage 1960+or-, including most rail lines, have been scanned into Trainorders Western Board by D Anderson(find them by searching for his name as 'author' in search function at bottom of thread list, and another good one of So.Cal in general under "John Signor Protege").
Posts: 216 | From: San Carlos, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts on another board yesterday noted O.C. freight brought to Anaheim from Dolores off a symbol from Roseville, so I'm wondering how much traffic comes in that way now vs. from Colton. Any clues?
Posts: 216 | From: San Carlos, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Tonight is the Orange County Railway Historical Society Meeting at 7:30 PM on the 5th floor of the Santa Ana Regional Transportation Center(Amtrak Depot). Tonight's program is members favorite 20 slides(not necessarily limited to O.C. scenes). Socializing starts at 7:00 PM. Visitors and those wanting to become members are always welcome.Wish I could be there, but still recovering from steam-filled weekend on S.F. Peninsula:>).
Posts: 216 | From: San Carlos, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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This past Sunday, there were two sets of road power on the Wye at Anaheim. I guess things got backed up over the Holidays? Or perhaps one set came from Dolores? I've never seen two sets of road power at the same time at Anaheim.
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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It's quite possible they ran two road trains due to holiday backup. Typically the Hauler originates out of Colton, although I noticed someone mentioned hearing some Hauler traffic was coming up out of Dolores, which is not the usual. I have seen as many as six units at the Anaheim wye before, so it happens now and then. I bet all six units left with the outbound Hauler, though.
Posts: 246 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Apr 2002
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I have never ever seen the Santa Ana Branch in my life, since i am stuck in the southeast right now, but I have thoroughly enjoyed this post. I wish there were as many people this passionate about the locals here in Chattanooga, it would make my day.
Posts: 4 | From: Jacksonville, AL, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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I have a feeling that the Santa Ana Branch is very popular with local railfans because of its lengthy stretch of street running - fully 1.5 miles - through a residential neighborhood no less. It also helps that the locals run on very regular schedules and usually during daylight hours, plus there's all those old crossbucks and the working wig-wag - a railfan photographer's dream. I have a feeling most branchlines are neglected by railfans because the train frequency just isn't high or regular enough. The Santa Ana Branch is an exception, and it's my favorite branch line in So Cal.
posted
Thanks to all whom have added to this lengthy discussion; I am going to have to take a half-day soon and get over in the early morning and watch the action.
Still Freight Starved in South O.C.,
Landon
------------------ If wishes were iron horses...
Posts: 16 | From: Lake Forest, CA. | Registered: Nov 2002
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What do you mean freight-starved, Landon? You just need to spend more 'quality' time trackside.
Posts: 20 | From: Orange County, CA | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by LakeForestLandon: Thanks to all whom have added to this lengthy discussion; I am going to have to take a half-day soon and get over in the early morning and watch the action.
posted
I used to live in Yorba Linda overlooking the BNSF mainline. The action was great but nothing compares to the unique personality of this branch. 4 trains on a consistant schedule M-F. The same friendly crews. Trains powered with whatever switchers and road switchers West Colton can come up with. Light power to 53 car trains with 3 units on a local. Street running with a wig wag and wooden crossbuck. Does it really get any better in these times of intermodal freights with the same old modern power?
Posts: 202 | From: Yorba Linda, CA USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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You forgot to add the hand-thrown switches and industrial switching nature at the south end of the branch.
Posts: 37 | From: Orange, CA | Registered: Nov 2002
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